Topic: Dunoon Tornado, Mini-tornado terminology and radar locations

[Michael Bath]

No probs Mathew.

On the 'where to place a doppler' subject, I disagree having one in the same location as the existing Grafton radar. I would suggest one halfway between Grafton and Casino - probably Whiporie so that this northern half of the region (and Tenterfield) gets better coverage. At the moment, the Casino - Lismore - Ballina area is at the limit of good coverage from all existing radars, despite having most of the population, and the doppler doesn't seem to produce useful velocity scans beyond 100km. It could then service the Lismore and Ballina airports too.

MB

[Gambit]

Hopefully one of your callers will answer 'What's the difference, they're all in the same category aren't they?' 

It's all good people, all good.

LOL very funny :D  however about as likely as snow in Lismore tomorrow...

[Richary]

Not sure if Whiporie would give good coverage to Tenterfield - wouldn't the ranges get in the way?

[Karina Roberts (slavegirl)]

what about any sort of unit at mount seaview im sure ralph would be delighted to have a radar there, would help out visuals for that part of the mid north coast (having been born and bred in port macquarie i know the severity those storms can reach in that area- walcha,mount seaview,waughope,long flat{in fact mount seaview had the bridge washed away by quite a severe hailstorm a fair few yrs back})

[Michael Bath]

Not sure if Whiporie would give good coverage to Tenterfield - wouldn't the ranges get in the way?

It would be similar to the Grafton radar was regard to that. From the BoM radar FAQ:

"The radar beam becomes further from the ground with distance (partly because of the Earth's curvature, and partly because the beam is angled upwards by a fraction of a degree), thereby missing the lower parts of the rain. A horizontal radar beam detects raindrops at a height of 1 kilometre above the Earth's surface from rain that is 100 kilometres away from the radar. It detects raindrops at a height of 3 kilometres from rain that is 200 kilometres away."

So a radar in that sort of position would be looking at storm bases along the Divide which Grafton does now.  Of course if the old Grafton radar was shifted elsewhere (rather than having two in the region), then having a doppler at Grafton would be the only choice given the infrastructure already in place.

[David C]

Well, at least this topic has afforded some interesting discussions over the years

[Mike]

Good one David, laughing my rear end off here at work...)

Mike

[Jeff Brislane]

John, you still haven't fully replied to my question. Oringinally you argued in favour of a doppler radar at Tamworth because of the high requency of destructive storms. Now on the basis of meterological conditions why should there be a doppler radar at Grafton or Nerwcastle?

What I am trying to get you to see is that if you argue on the basis of meteorological conditions or say the frequency and power of destructive storms than you will see that the Northern rivers experiences far more than the Tamworth region and yet Grafton is not slated for a doppler upgrade. Also you would find that the frequency of severe destructive storms in the Hunter both upper and lower is higher than the Tamworth region and yet Newcastle is not slated for a doppler upgrade. And last the coastal areas north and south of Kempsey have experienced some devestating severe storms with giant hail over the years and there is no radar there at all.

Now if we aruge on the basis of population growth and density then the coast wins again hands down. Port Macquarrie is one of the fastest growing towns in New South Wales and it has insuficent radar coverage. Even the other day another hailstorm hit the Taree area. Only a year or two ago a hailstorm hit Taree collapsing roofs of major shopping centers and causing widespread damage.

Tamworth's doppler radar is not in my opinion a necessity as it is along the coast and represents to me a waste of money. Tamworth deserves a radar but not a doppler an in my opinion it should get one at the same time as Dubbo.

Also

I did answer your query: until I realised the topography in the way(the radar coverage would improve with a tamworth system over that area, check the 128km/256km cover). The radar coverage possible if you place a doppler at Tamworth would cover the grafton/newcastle gap over port mac and coffs somewhat better if not for the mountains(dumbo here forgot about them).

You are saying here that it's the mountains that would get in the way of radar coverage reaching the coast from a radar at Tamworth and that is one problem but what about the fact that Tamworth is 200+km inland from the coast? Isn't that a serious problem too? And what if they mount the Tamworth radar 50km west of town to get better coverage, than it wouldn't even see below 4km along the coast.

Jeff.

[David Brodrick]

Personally I'm thrilled about Tamworth's doppler RADAR going in.

Much of the weather that hits the coast originates on and west of the tablelands. Tamworth will fill an important gap between Moree/Grafton/Newcastle even if the coverage doesn't extend all the way to the coast.

Statistical arguments could be made for any site but at the end of the day this area has the same order of magnitude of severe weather as anywhere else in the state and it must be much cheaper to install a doppler rather than swap it with an existing RADAR.

Hopefully it will be online around the end of March..
Regards,
  Dave

[Jimmy Deguara]

In that case, would not a compromise be to place it on the ranges itself say on the 1400 metre range east of Tamworth - is it Black Mountain? This would cover a fair bit of the coastline and further inland from Tamworth.

Regards,

Jimmy Deguara

[David C]

There would be a whole bunch of issues surrounding a radar installation including proximity to basic services to drive the thing, environmental issues, accessibility, local representation / DA etc etc etc. It's not simply a case of which site would provide the best coverage.   

[David Brodrick]

Well we're not sure exactly whereabouts the Tamworth RADAR will be installed. Somewhere on the BOM site I once saw it referred to as Tamworth/Gunnedah, which would suggest that it is not going on the range, but I'm not sure..

Presumably BOM already have a site purchased and awaiting installation. Presumably they also have good reasons for putting it there and not somewhere else, even if we don't fully understand what those reasons are. As David C says, coverage is not the only factor.
Cheers,
  Dave

[Mike]

Would any input as far as radar location from experienced chasers have any effect?  Would for example those that have been around for a while and know BoM staff on a personal basis have any influence as to where the most logical area would be?  Surely with the amount of experience displayed in this forum at least the BoM would have an open ear to what they have to say?

If they put it in the wrong location which is not desirable why not give them some advice as to where to put it?  Just a thought as it seems to be going around in circles !

Mike