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Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: 20th November 1998

From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:49:59 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re East Coast Low / TS Yesterday & Today /
	 Last Nights IRC Meeting.
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Howdy Don.

I am about 15 Kms NE of Taree, near the seasde villages of Harington, Old
Bar & Manning Point (If u have heard of them.)
The island I live on is sub-tropical (as indicated by the vegetation) and I
live on a hill about 2 kms from the sea (which I belive affects the amount
of rainfall). here are my rainfall figures for the following days:

18.11.1998 9am til 19.11.1998 9am:       74.1MM
19.11.1998 9am til 20.11.1998 9am        17.4mm

Don while I am writing this now, can I take the opportunity to say I love
your column in the tele (its the only reason I buy it) and that your
webpage needs updating!!

Regards, Paul.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:23:22 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham 
To: Aussie Weather 
Subject: aussie-weather: Radar Imagery for the South African Tornado...
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Hi everyone,
	I have found some radar imagery of the storm that spawned the
tornado in South Africa that Paul Mossman was talking about.  The address
is:  

http://nprp0.ofs.gov.za/radar.html 

and the address of the South African weather Bureau is: 

http://www.sawb.gov.za/

	Cheers,
		Paul.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
----------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "McDonald" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: Lightning detection and mammatus?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:40:08 +1100
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Hello everyone,

Melbourne may get a storm on sat/sun if we are lucky but that is not what
I'm writing for.  Two questions.

1.  Energex lightning detection - is there a similar service in Victoria?

2.  Mammatus - During the past year I have observed mammatus within 5km of
my house at least 12 times with about half of these being altocumulus
mammatus and the other half being observed with thunderstorms.  (I think
there are two types??)  I was curious as to the reason why this has
occurred so frequently in such a small area?  There isn't much influence
from hills/mountains or significant increases in the number of buildings. 
Just curious as to why this may have occurred.  I have some great photo's
of mammatus but I don't have a scanner - I'm organising getting the
scanned.

Any comments would be welcome and if anyone feels it not necessary to send
reply's through the list my address is (not sure if it comes on the mail so
here it is)

	mcdonald at one.net.au

Thanks,

Andrew McDonald.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:58:09 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: Re: severe weather
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Howdy all. There has been a lot of talk lately regarding severe weather in
the press. For all take a lookat the Telegraph today (page 11) with an
excellent article from the CSIRO regarding increased tempretaures & severe
weather predicitons. The CSIRO now predicts that the 1 in 20yr storm, will
now be a 1 in 8 yr event. Going with that, we have an article in our Local
Paper today (Manning River Times page 3) where the BOM warns Mid North
Coast residents that they faced a massive increse in the chances of TC's
hitting the coast. (Really?? we all have been saying that now for some
weeks.............................) and that a significant La Nina event is
moving in & setting up in our hemisphere. (good news for some,bad news for
farmers........)

This is the time when we , as chasers, weather enthusiasts can be of great
assistance. More & More the BOm are going to realise that they dont have
the technology to either a) predict severe storms or b) track severe
storms. So we can take this to heart. This is where we need to organise
training, education and participation.

As far as I can see, the future looks great!!

Paul.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:05:41 +1000
From: "W.A. (Bill) Webb" 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I; 16bit)
To: Aussie Weather Net 
Subject: aussie-weather: Unusual weather
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Hi all,

Found the following quote in a novel "Whalemen Adventurers", by W.J.
Dakin. Hardly severe weather, but certainly interesting.

Anyone care to speculate on possible causes?? The book offers none.

>From the log of the barque "Arabian", dated January. 20, 1850.
In waters North of Timor in Indonesia.

quote;

At midnight the fourth mate came to my cabin very much frightened and
called me and told me the ship was sailing through a sheet of fire, I
immediately went on deck, where I saw one of the most remarkable sights
I had ever witnessed; it appeared like one large sheet of flame,
extending from the ship's bow round on each side to the distance of a
cable length and from the stern about two cables length and leaving and
returning as though there was a very heavy sea on; the water at the time
was as smooth as glass. After stopping around the ship for about ten
minutes it took its direction for the shore; where the officer and his
watch reported it to come from. Several of the watch ran below very much
frightened.

end quote:

Have a good one
-- 
Bill Webb
Proserpine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Chambers" 
To: "Aussie Weather" 
Subject: aussie-weather: disappearing websites
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:05:02 +1000
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Hi all

I just noticed some Ozemail websites like mine
(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html ) and Laurier's
(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/news.html ) have the "403 Forbidden or
Permission Denied" message right now.  Hopefully they'll be back very
soon!!!!  Michael Thompson's seems okay.

------------------------------------------------------
James Chambers
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Thompson" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: new photos from SEQ
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:19:56 +1100
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It is times like these you need time lapse video, I would not mind betting
that it would reveal rotation of the lower base area.

I seen this sort of thing on US documentarys, and quite small non -
supercell storms often show rotation with time laspe video.

Regards
Michael




>I just posted some new photos from Nov 14 and one from Nov 18.  The 3 from
>the 14th were quite interesting considering the strength of the
>t'storms/t'shrs.  The first 2 show an interesting base feature and the 3rd
a
>good example of mammatus.  The one photo from the 18th is from the midday
>storms but the more photogenic storms of the day occurred later around 4pm.
>I'll have those photos soon.
>These current photos are in my November Thunderdays page at:
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jourdey/storm/nov.html
>------------------------------------------------------
>James Chambers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Chambers" 
To: "Aussie Weather" 
Subject: aussie-weather: First TC close to Aus Coast?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:12:05 +1000
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Check this satellite pic: http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/gmsc/gmsc.jpg

TROPICAL CYCLONE OUTLOOK BUREAU  OF METEOROLOGY PERTH
Issued at 1200 hours on   Friday , 20/11/98

FOR THE AREA BETWEEN LONGITUDES 110 - 129 EAST
weak TROPICAL LOW  north of the Pilbara coast
    Location          : near 13S 117E
                      : about 830 kilometres (450 nautical miles)
                        north northwest  of Port Hedland
    Central pressure  : about 1006 hPa
    Recent movement  : southwest 4 kilometres per hour (2 knots)
    DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL          Next 24h    : low          24-48h      :
low
          48-72h      : low
    REMARKS - the low should continue to track slowly to the
    southwest and then south later in the weekend. Present
    indications are that the low will stay weak during the outlook period.

NOTE: Development potential is an estimate of the probability of
tropical cyclone development within each 24 hour period.
LOW = 10%-20%   MODERATE = 30% - 40%  HIGH = 50% OR MORE
------------------------------------------------------
James Chambers
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: disappearing websites
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:15:33 GMT
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On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:05:02 +1000, you wrote:

>Hi all
>
>I just noticed some Ozemail websites like mine
>(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html ) and Laurier's
>(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/news.html ) have the "403 Forbidden or
>Permission Denied" message right now.  Hopefully they'll be back very
>soon!!!!  Michael Thompson's seems okay.
>
I've just checked, and both are still giving the same message.
Ozemail's email pop server has been giving trouble today, so perhaps
they are going through a more general problem.  It there is no change
in a few hours, I'll phone them

Laurier Williams
Australian Weather Links and News
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:46:26 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham 
To: Aussie Weather Net 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Unusual weather
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
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This phenomenon is known as "St. Elmo's Fire" appears as a firy glow from
a ship's mast.  It results from an electrical discharge from sharp
metallic points on the mast where voltages are greatest.  It occurs when
there is a strong electrical field present as in the case of a
thunderstorm.  If the ship is within the vicinity of a storm, then this is
when St. Elmo's Fire is most likely to be observed.
Take a look at:
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert/physics/physics35.html
- Paul G.
----------------------------
Paul Graham 
m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au 
----------------------------

On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, W.A. (Bill) Webb wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Found the following quote in a novel "Whalemen Adventurers", by W.J.
> Dakin. Hardly severe weather, but certainly interesting.
> 
> Anyone care to speculate on possible causes?? The book offers none.
> 
> >From the log of the barque "Arabian", dated January. 20, 1850.
> In waters North of Timor in Indonesia.
> 
> quote;
> 
> At midnight the fourth mate came to my cabin very much frightened and
> called me and told me the ship was sailing through a sheet of fire, I
> immediately went on deck, where I saw one of the most remarkable sights
> I had ever witnessed; it appeared like one large sheet of flame,
> extending from the ship's bow round on each side to the distance of a
> cable length and from the stern about two cables length and leaving and
> returning as though there was a very heavy sea on; the water at the time
> was as smooth as glass. After stopping around the ship for about ten
> minutes it took its direction for the shore; where the officer and his
> watch reported it to come from. Several of the watch ran below very much
> frightened.
> 
> end quote:
> 
> Have a good one
> -- 
> Bill Webb
> Proserpine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.25.186.102]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re: severe weather
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:58:17 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi Paul,
I don't know that the BOM don't have the technology, I just think that 
they don't have the networking (i.e. people on tap) or the data points! 
Most of Australia has no real reporting bases!
Yours,
Kevin.


, 20 Nov 1998 13:58:09 +1000
>Subject: aussie-weather: Re: severe weather
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Disposition: inline
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>
>
>Howdy all. There has been a lot of talk lately regarding severe weather 
in
>the press. For all take a lookat the Telegraph today (page 11) with an
>excellent article from the CSIRO regarding increased tempretaures & 
severe
>weather predicitons. The CSIRO now predicts that the 1 in 20yr storm, 
will
>now be a 1 in 8 yr event. Going with that, we have an article in our 
Local
>Paper today (Manning River Times page 3) where the BOM warns Mid North
>Coast residents that they faced a massive increse in the chances of 
TC's
>hitting the coast. (Really?? we all have been saying that now for some
>weeks.............................) and that a significant La Nina 
event is
>moving in & setting up in our hemisphere. (good news for some,bad news 
for
>farmers........)
>
>This is the time when we , as chasers, weather enthusiasts can be of 
great
>assistance. More & More the BOm are going to realise that they dont 
have
>the technology to either a) predict severe storms or b) track severe
>storms. So we can take this to heart. This is where we need to organise
>training, education and participation.
>
>As far as I can see, the future looks great!!
>
>Paul.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.25.186.102]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: disappearing websites
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:01:51 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi every1,
Yes, I've had the same problem (intermittently) with my fortunecity 
website. It seems to come and go and I figure it may be due to too much 
web traffic.
Kevin.


>
>Hi all
>
>I just noticed some Ozemail websites like mine
>(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html ) and Laurier's
>(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/news.html ) have the "403 Forbidden or
>Permission Denied" message right now.  Hopefully they'll be back very
>soon!!!!  Michael Thompson's seems okay.
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>James Chambers
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: disappearing websites
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:08:28 +1100
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Probably the Ozemail is having some problems which they have had in the past
couple of weeks. When I signed on, I could not immediately get my e-mail.

Jimmy Deguara

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Phyland 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: disappearing websites


>Hi every1,
>Yes, I've had the same problem (intermittently) with my fortunecity
>website. It seems to come and go and I figure it may be due to too much
>web traffic.
>Kevin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: disarm at braenet.com.au
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:24:28 +1100
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


http://www.qantmnt.au-net.com/webcam/index.html

storm over darwin at present.

Matt Smith

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Greg Spencer" 
To: "Aussie Weather Mailing List" 
Subject: aussie-weather: Im new here
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:54:06 +0800
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Hello.
  
My name is Greg Spencer
  
I've just subscibed  to the aussie-weather mailing list. I have a strong interest in severe weather and have enjoyed chasing storms for the past 6 months. I am only 19 so have had little time to get out after storms, but since starting I have enjoyed it thoroughly. My main interest in storms is lightning and tornadoes. Since we dont much in the way of tornadoes here in Perth, I plan to go to the states in 5 - 10 years and chase them for a few months. I look forwards to hearing your thoughts and ideas on severe weather here in Australia.
  
Regards
  
Greg Spencer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re: severe weather
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 98 22:06:39 +1000
X-Sender: mildad at mail.one.net.au
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From: mildad 
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com


>the technology to either a) predict severe storms or b) track severe
>storms. So we can take this to heart. This is where we need to organise
>training, education and participation.
>
>Paul.

>I don't know that the BOM don't have the technology, I just think that 
>they don't have the networking (i.e. people on tap) or the data points! 
>Most of Australia has no real reporting bases!
>Yours,
>Kevin.

I agree Kevin - certainly the technology exists (in the case of the 
Sydney BoMs white elephant Doppler that is all it does), at least in the 
more populous areas of Australia, to track severe storms: radar 
accessibility to the average joe [or storm chaser] is an entirely 
different matter. 

As for their prediction, the BoM here, and in the U.S NSSL and SPC, issue 
advisories/watches, generally covering fairly large areas, which I guess 
reflects their acknowledgment of the limitations of current sv storm 
forecasting: this is about as accurate as it can be before the fact - 
after that time, then radar monitoring and the important role of storm 
spotters come in by initiating more specific warnings;  and I imagine it 
will be this way for some time to come: Anyway, as an aside, I suppose it 
would be pretty boring knowing that a severe thunderstorm will affect 
Sydneys west in a line from Blacktown to Liverpool at ~ 15:00 tomorrow - 
like with most things the element of mystery is the reason why storm 
chasing is so enjoyable and addictive.

Perhaps now, with what seems to be a growing network of spotters and 
chasers in Australia the potential hazard which sv thunderstorms pose 
here might be fully documented - Jimmy, Michael B, Michael T and Ira can 
only cover so much territory. As James Chamber's suggests on his website, 
it is only a matter of time before a violent tornado will strike a direct 
hit on a major centre, but, at the moment, it does not seem that those 
unfortunate people will be given much time to take cover.


Cheers

David

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re: severe weather
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:44:26 +1100
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I agree totally David. The element of mistery even on the day makes it all
exciting. This is why I don't hear weather forecasts anymore. So when the
day comes, the blood begins to rush.

As to the Doppler, I don't know if it has been installed yet.... and it was
purchased a few years ago....

Jimmy Deguara

-----Original Message-----
From: mildad 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
Date: Friday, November 20, 1998 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re: severe weather


>
>>the technology to either a) predict severe storms or b) track severe
>>storms. So we can take this to heart. This is where we need to organise
>>training, education and participation.
>>
>>Paul.
>
>>I don't know that the BOM don't have the technology, I just think that
>>they don't have the networking (i.e. people on tap) or the data points!
>>Most of Australia has no real reporting bases!
>>Yours,
>>Kevin.
>
>I agree Kevin - certainly the technology exists (in the case of the
>Sydney BoMs white elephant Doppler that is all it does), at least in the
>more populous areas of Australia, to track severe storms: radar
>accessibility to the average joe [or storm chaser] is an entirely
>different matter.
>
>As for their prediction, the BoM here, and in the U.S NSSL and SPC, issue
>advisories/watches, generally covering fairly large areas, which I guess
>reflects their acknowledgment of the limitations of current sv storm
>forecasting: this is about as accurate as it can be before the fact -
>after that time, then radar monitoring and the important role of storm
>spotters come in by initiating more specific warnings;  and I imagine it
>will be this way for some time to come: Anyway, as an aside, I suppose it
>would be pretty boring knowing that a severe thunderstorm will affect
>Sydneys west in a line from Blacktown to Liverpool at ~ 15:00 tomorrow -
>like with most things the element of mystery is the reason why storm
>chasing is so enjoyable and addictive.
>
>Perhaps now, with what seems to be a growing network of spotters and
>chasers in Australia the potential hazard which sv thunderstorms pose
>here might be fully documented - Jimmy, Michael B, Michael T and Ira can
>only cover so much territory. As James Chamber's suggests on his website,
>it is only a matter of time before a violent tornado will strike a direct
>hit on a major centre, but, at the moment, it does not seem that those
>unfortunate people will be given much time to take cover.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>David

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: Cloud Development
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:54:27 +1100
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Cloud is begining to developin Western as well as Central Victoria. I hope
this reacts with the moist air from NSW as it moves across. And I hope it
moves slowly and stalls...

Is this too much to ask for.....

Jimmy Deguara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara from Schofields
e-mail:  jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:25:26 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Matt Smith 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Cloud Development
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Jimmy
, nope its not to much to ask for! as long as it hits around around 2-3pm
on sunday.. you can count on it i will be a happy person if it does! :) ,
im ready for a big chase!
Matt

>Cloud is begining to developin Western as well as Central Victoria. I hope
>this reacts with the moist air from NSW as it moves across. And I hope it
>moves slowly and stalls...
>
>Is this too much to ask for.....
>
>Jimmy Deguara

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:59:12 +0800
From: Ira 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: WA has plenty of tornadoes!!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Greg Spencer wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> My name is Greg Spencer
> 
> I've just subscibed  to the aussie-weather mailing list. I have a
> strong interest in severe weather and have enjoyed chasing storms for
> the past 6 months. I am only 19 so have had little time to get out
> after storms, but since starting I have enjoyed it thoroughly. My main
> interest in storms is lightning and tornadoes. Since we dont much in
> the way of tornadoes here in Perth, I plan to go to the states in 5 -
> 10 years and chase them for a few months. I look forwards to hearing
> your thoughts and ideas on severe weather here in Australia.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Greg Spencer


Hi there, I hate to spoil your party but WA has had 15 confirmed
tornadoes in the last 12 months (one witnessed by myself on a chase) and
there would have been others that went un-detected for sure. I would'nt
bother with the states. Talk to any chaser over there and they'll tell
you that most states in the US had didnt get 15 tornadoes this season.
Get out there and you will see em.
   
           WA Chaser 
                       Ira Fehlberg

http://www.upnaway.com/~jra/weather.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Greg Spencer" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: WA has plenty of tornadoes!!!
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:21:12 +0800
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Hi Ira

As Im new to meteorology, I still have allot to learn. I have been looking
into severe storms for some time now (about 4 years which isn't bad
considering Im only 19)and although have heard of a few tornadoes, I am
unaware of just how many we get outside of the Perth Metro Area. Im sure
there is more out there, I just dont get the opportunity to go out and chase
them. With school and work commitments, I dont have as much time to go and
see them as I would like.

I dont really follow what happens in the US but I do know that the have the
largest amount of documented tornadoes in the world just about every year. I
know that when my family was over there in March last year, there was 33 in
one night in the state of Arkansas which is very rare to see at the time of
year according to the Vortex Storm Chasers.

I look forward to any advise that you may have in regards to storm chasing
in WA

Regards

Greg Spencer

-----Original Message-----
From: Ira 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
Date: 20 November 1998 21:07
Subject: aussie-weather: WA has plenty of tornadoes!!!


>Greg Spencer wrote:
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> My name is Greg Spencer
>>
>> I've just subscibed  to the aussie-weather mailing list. I have a
>> strong interest in severe weather and have enjoyed chasing storms for
>> the past 6 months. I am only 19 so have had little time to get out
>> after storms, but since starting I have enjoyed it thoroughly. My main
>> interest in storms is lightning and tornadoes. Since we dont much in
>> the way of tornadoes here in Perth, I plan to go to the states in 5 -
>> 10 years and chase them for a few months. I look forwards to hearing
>> your thoughts and ideas on severe weather here in Australia.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg Spencer
>
>
>Hi there, I hate to spoil your party but WA has had 15 confirmed
>tornadoes in the last 12 months (one witnessed by myself on a chase) and
>there would have been others that went un-detected for sure. I would'nt
>bother with the states. Talk to any chaser over there and they'll tell
>you that most states in the US had didnt get 15 tornadoes this season.
>Get out there and you will see em.
>
>           WA Chaser
>                       Ira Fehlberg

Document: 981120.htm
Updated: 23rd November, 1998

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