Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:15:01 +1100
From: Brian Wheldon 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: BoM questionnaire
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

That better now i can fill it in thanks i thought i was going stupid there for a
while.


Hank de Wit wrote:

> At 10:11 27/11/98 +1100, Jane ONeill wrote:
> >I think it would be a good idea if we all took the time to respond to the
> >BoM questionnaire today.  It will be a good platform for us to air our
> >praises and concerns and have them heard.  I've already responded in detail.
> >Go to this URL....
> >http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/questionnaire.cgi
> >
>
> This should be
>
>         http://www.BoM.GOV.AU/oa/questionnaire/
>
> Cheers
> Hank

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:37:41 -0500
From: David Hart 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Jacob wrote:

> At 06:16 PM 27-11-98 +1100, you wrote:
> >Hi everyone,
> >	The Bureau of Meteorology is offering warnings and forecasts by
> >e-mail as a trial service.  What do people think of the idea of
> >subscribing the "Aussie-Weather" mailing list to this new, trial service?
> >	What do you think Jacob?
> >	- Paul G.
> >
> >----------------------------
> >Paul Graham
> >m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
> >----------------------------
> >
> 
> I dont have a problem with it personally, but this list is very active as
> it is, and some may not want extra emails, plus I wouldnt know how the BoM
> offers their emails forecasts, it could only be for one city per email, and
> if we asked for every city to be sent on this list that would mean quite a
> few extra emails a day with all the updates throughout the day.  I'm also
> not sure (dave in Boston, USA would know) if this list would allow itself
> to be on another list.
> 

It's technicaly possible. All it would re-quire is that we subscribe the
list e-mail address to the service, and then we'd have to subscribe the
address that BoM uses for the list.

The question is do you want all of that additional e-mail. I would suggest
that several of you subscribe to the BoM services and forward anything
that comes in that's interesting. If you find one of the service to almost
always be interesting, we can subscribe the list to that service.


David Hart

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:48:57 +1100
From: Brian Wheldon 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi
     I think its a great idea wouldn't mind trying it out
BRIAN WHELDON
briwin at connexus.net.au

Paul Graham wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>         The Bureau of Meteorology is offering warnings and forecasts by
> e-mail as a trial service.  What do people think of the idea of
> subscribing the "Aussie-Weather" mailing list to this new, trial service?
>         What do you think Jacob?
>         - Paul G.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 21:58:53 +0800
From: Ira 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Radar limits
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi kevin,
          dont think we've met but hi and nice to meet you. I dont know
if you are in a radar hole but i do know that the cuvature of the earth
does effect the radar. I remember one day in 1995 when conditions looked
like they would be excellent for thunderstorms and a good chance of
supercells, so i prepared to chase. I kept on eye on things all day and
went to the buearu around lunch time. I watched the radar and nothing
really developt which confused me. At the time i put it down to my
error. Then Im watching the 6:00pm news and there is footage of a
supercell with golf ball and larger sized hail NE of Perth. I went back
and checked out the radar pics and the storm was never even visible. The
guys at the buearu told me that this was becasue of the curvature of the
earth and that by the time the beam reached there it was already too
high. They have since in stalled new systems but the radar on the net is
similar to what they had then. Hope that explains something.

                   Ira Fehlberg
Just a quick question...
I've noticed that there are only two ranges of radar available in 
Australia - 256 x 256, and 1024 x 1024 km.
My question is this...
If radar can only 'see' 256 km. from the source (and I'm assuming that 
the radar is straight-line, and can't account for curvature of the 
Earth) then how accurate is it (i.e. at what heights) at the 256 km. 
limit?
It only occurred to me today that Wycheproof just happens to be about 
256 km. from both Mildura and Melbourne. 
Are we in a radar 'hole'?
I'm assuming that the 1024 x 1024 km. pictures are composites, but I'm 
still quite curious.
Any thoughts?

Kevin from Wycheproof.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:55:34 +1100
From: Brian Wheldon 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi Every1
               Earlier i said it was a good idea but looking at some of the other
comments that came in Im starting to wonder It would make a very long email list
as i recieve about 20-50 emails per day now.
Brian

David Hart wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Jacob wrote:
>
> > At 06:16 PM 27-11-98 +1100, you wrote:
> > >Hi everyone,
> > >     The Bureau of Meteorology is offering warnings and forecasts by
> > >e-mail as a trial service.  What do people think of the idea of
> > >subscribing the "Aussie-Weather" mailing list to this new, trial service?
> > >     What do you think Jacob?
> > >     - Paul G.
> > >
> > >----------------------------
> > >Paul Graham
> > >m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
> > >----------------------------
> > >
> >
> > I dont have a problem with it personally, but this list is very active as
> > it is, and some may not want extra emails, plus I wouldnt know how the BoM
> > offers their emails forecasts, it could only be for one city per email, and
> > if we asked for every city to be sent on this list that would mean quite a
> > few extra emails a day with all the updates throughout the day.  I'm also
> > not sure (dave in Boston, USA would know) if this list would allow itself
> > to be on another list.
> >
>
> It's technicaly possible. All it would re-quire is that we subscribe the
> list e-mail address to the service, and then we'd have to subscribe the
> address that BoM uses for the list.
>
> The question is do you want all of that additional e-mail. I would suggest
> that several of you subscribe to the BoM services and forward anything
> that comes in that's interesting. If you find one of the service to almost
> always be interesting, we can subscribe the list to that service.
>
> David Hart

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:00:54 +1100
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Radar limits
From: "Mark Hardy" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Kev

Your right, the 1024 images are composites. The radar can see 256km but not
much further. At 256 they are looking pretty high due to distance and
curvature. I think the beam is aimed at about 4 degrees above the horizontal
so you could do the calculations on what altitude that would be pointing at
at 256km.

The range on the Mildura radar is somewhat less than Laverton as it is a
different type of radar (can't remember the details, but I don't think it's
as powerful as it was originally designed as a windfinding radar). So yeah,
you could be in a bit of a radar hole. You're not alone though - most of the
country is.

Mark
----------
>From: "Kevin Phyland" 
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: aussie-weather: Radar limits
>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:58
>

>Just a quick question...
>I've noticed that there are only two ranges of radar available in 
>Australia - 256 x 256, and 1024 x 1024 km.
>My question is this...
>If radar can only 'see' 256 km. from the source (and I'm assuming that 
>the radar is straight-line, and can't account for curvature of the 
>Earth) then how accurate is it (i.e. at what heights) at the 256 km. 
>limit?
>It only occurred to me today that Wycheproof just happens to be about 
>256 km. from both Mildura and Melbourne. 
>Are we in a radar 'hole'?
>I'm assuming that the 1024 x 1024 km. pictures are composites, but I'm 
>still quite curious.
>Any thoughts?
>
>Kevin from Wycheproof.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 01:03:50 +1100
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
From: "Mark Hardy" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

I'd prefer that everyone subscribe to the products they require. Otherwise
you'll be barraged by so much mail that you'll never find the stuff that
interests you most.

----------
>From: Paul Graham 
>To: Aussie Weather 
>Subject: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
>Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:16
>

>Hi everyone,
> The Bureau of Meteorology is offering warnings and forecasts by
>e-mail as a trial service.  What do people think of the idea of
>subscribing the "Aussie-Weather" mailing list to this new, trial service?
> What do you think Jacob?
> - Paul G.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: jacob at iinet.net.au
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:49:39 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jacob 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

At 08:37 AM 27-11-98 -0500, you wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Jacob wrote:
>
>> At 06:16 PM 27-11-98 +1100, you wrote:
>> >Hi everyone,
>> >	The Bureau of Meteorology is offering warnings and forecasts by
>> >e-mail as a trial service.  What do people think of the idea of
>> >subscribing the "Aussie-Weather" mailing list to this new, trial service?
>> >	What do you think Jacob?
>> >	- Paul G.
>> >
>> >----------------------------
>> >Paul Graham
>> >m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
>> >----------------------------
>> >
>> 
>> I dont have a problem with it personally, but this list is very active as
>> it is, and some may not want extra emails, plus I wouldnt know how the BoM
>> offers their emails forecasts, it could only be for one city per email, and
>> if we asked for every city to be sent on this list that would mean quite a
>> few extra emails a day with all the updates throughout the day.  I'm also
>> not sure (dave in Boston, USA would know) if this list would allow itself
>> to be on another list.
>> 
>
>It's technicaly possible. All it would re-quire is that we subscribe the
>list e-mail address to the service, and then we'd have to subscribe the
>address that BoM uses for the list.
>
>The question is do you want all of that additional e-mail. I would suggest
>that several of you subscribe to the BoM services and forward anything
>that comes in that's interesting. If you find one of the service to almost
>always be interesting, we can subscribe the list to that service.
>
>
>David Hart
>

yep, I agree, it will be much better doing it that way, otherwise we would
have to cope with a lot more mail.

Anyway, looks interesting in Perth tomorrow, with the chance of some
thundery showers, but they should mainly be to the east of Perth, but if
you're watching the cricket on tv tomorrow, with the 2nd test starting in
Perth, keep an eye on the weather, but I doubt that the city will see any
storms.

Jacob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 07:53:11 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi Jimmy here,

Based on my beliefs more so than anything else, I don't want to read any
forecasts. I try and predict the weather myself as I have prescribed before.
Please subscribe yourself and don't mention it on this list or at least
indicate it on the e-mail subject so I don't read it.

Yesterday was one example of this although I thankfully did not hear the
latest forecast... As I had already heard the Bureau forecasting storms from
a couple of days before for Sydney it was hard for me to ignore this but I
stuck with my forecast that it will occur towards the north coast and not
here. This is what happened. This may be one of the first time I have done
this in this situation with a fast moving cold front as you always hope
something may happen.

Great to see many on the list. I have not had time to digest all e-mails but
that's ok. I read most and try and respond to the ones appropriate to me.
Keep up the good work. I hope all newcomers are reminded that we are having
a meeting in Sydney next Thursday to form the basis of the storm chasers
society (name to be confirmed later). The details of the outcomes of these
meetings will be e-mail on this list so don't go away. Somebody pass across
the details each day to any newcomers please.

Jimmy Deguara

-----Original Message-----
From: Jacob 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Warnings/Forecasts by e-mail...


>At 08:37 AM 27-11-98 -0500, you wrote:
>>On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, Jacob wrote:
>>
>>> At 06:16 PM 27-11-98 +1100, you wrote:
>>> >Hi everyone,
>>> > The Bureau of Meteorology is offering warnings and forecasts by
>>> >e-mail as a trial service.  What do people think of the idea of
>>> >subscribing the "Aussie-Weather" mailing list to this new, trial
service?
>>> > What do you think Jacob?
>>> > - Paul G.
>>> >
>>> >----------------------------
>>> >Paul Graham
>>> >m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
>>> >----------------------------
>>> >
>>>
>>> I dont have a problem with it personally, but this list is very active
as
>>> it is, and some may not want extra emails, plus I wouldnt know how the
BoM
>>> offers their emails forecasts, it could only be for one city per email,
and
>>> if we asked for every city to be sent on this list that would mean quite
a
>>> few extra emails a day with all the updates throughout the day.  I'm
also
>>> not sure (dave in Boston, USA would know) if this list would allow
itself
>>> to be on another list.
>>>
>>
>>It's technicaly possible. All it would re-quire is that we subscribe the
>>list e-mail address to the service, and then we'd have to subscribe the
>>address that BoM uses for the list.
>>
>>The question is do you want all of that additional e-mail. I would suggest
>>that several of you subscribe to the BoM services and forward anything
>>that comes in that's interesting. If you find one of the service to almost
>>always be interesting, we can subscribe the list to that service.
>>
>>
>>David Hart
>>
>
>yep, I agree, it will be much better doing it that way, otherwise we would
>have to cope with a lot more mail.
>
>Anyway, looks interesting in Perth tomorrow, with the chance of some
>thundery showers, but they should mainly be to the east of Perth, but if
>you're watching the cricket on tv tomorrow, with the 2nd test starting in
>Perth, keep an eye on the weather, but I doubt that the city will see any
>storms.
>
>Jacob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.25.186.101]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Radar...
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 16:29:00 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi every1,
I just noticed that the BOM radar still seems to be available.
Kevin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Chambers" 
To: "Aussie Weather" 
Subject: aussie-weather: seq storm prospects
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:44:36 +1000
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Hi all

Well, the soundings point the other way, but we could get some storms here a
bit later.  Mid level cloud is clearing (which had a tiny bit of 'spitty'
rain late morning) from the west but through the haze to the SW and west I
can make out some cu congestus and large cu.  Altocumulus Castellanus is
quite widespread.  So with the radar still working, watch the Brisbane
radar, but also the Moree Broad radar where dev't is currently taking place.

James
------------------------------------------------------
James Chambers
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Chambers" 
To: "Aussie Weather" 
Subject: aussie-weather: seq storms
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:13:13 +1000
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi...well surprisingly, development close to us is occurring and there's a
line of storms dev'g west of Toowoomba and extending NNW-SSE a large
distance.  Nothing severe should happen with those soundings.  Activity on
the lightning tracker and on Broad radar, because the Bris radar isn't
working right now.
------------------------------------------------------
James Chambers
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.25.186.113]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Longreach
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:04:27 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi every1,
Check out the Longreach local radar! Nice echoes!
Kevin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Chambers" 
To: "Aussie Weather" 
Subject: aussie-weather: more seq storms
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:08:47 +1000
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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In the southern Bris suburbs, we just got a single cell which poured on us
briefly, giving us 5-8mm.  More anvils out to the SW and intensifying storm
around the Gatton-Toowoomba areas.
Winds were NW then gusty SW with the storm, and vis was way down at one
stage.  A close CG at one stage.  So, I'm ready for the next one!
------------------------------------------------------
James Chambers
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: more seq storms
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:17:30 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Based on the lifted index forecasts, there are probable severe thunderstorms
to develop and move through over the next few hours. Attached is the 4pm EST
lifted index and this very well shows the situation at the moment.

Jimmy Deguara
-----Original Message-----
From: James Chambers 
To: Aussie Weather 
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 5:08 PM
Subject: aussie-weather: more seq storms


>In the southern Bris suburbs, we just got a single cell which poured on us
>briefly, giving us 5-8mm.  More anvils out to the SW and intensifying storm
>around the Gatton-Toowoomba areas.
>Winds were NW then gusty SW with the storm, and vis was way down at one
>stage.  A close CG at one stage.  So, I'm ready for the next one!
>------------------------------------------------------
>James Chambers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:29:39 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Australian Weather Mailing List 
Subject: aussie-weather: SE QLD T'Storm drought and famine!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all!

I've just came back from a week's holiday up in Noosa (130km N of
Brisbane)  Certainly a feast and famine T'storm situation here in SE
QLD!  With 4 thunderdays in the past 10 days!!  At the moment there are
some t'storms and t'showers present, I can hear some rumbles of thunder
at the present.  In fact, in the past 25mins, lightning tracker has gone
from 18 new strikes to 90 new strikes!  With a small cluster approaching
Ipswich and west Brisbane at this moment. There is currently some
mammatus to the SE of me on one of the anvils.

I am aiming to get my t'storm reports of Wed 18/11 and last Tue's
t'storms out by Sun night.  Although last Sun's t'storm was not severe,m
I'll add a little in about that as well.

Tue's t'storm had SUPERB cloud structure in it's extremely rounded, deep
and well defined shelf cloud!  I'll try and get a friend to scan these
for all to see, because IMO the shelf cloud is marvelous!

Also - I could have throtled Channel 10 (sorry Mark) for it's statement
of "the first tornado in QLD for 25yrs" because that is utter crap
(pardon my french)

Anthony, back from holidays.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:37:31 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Bureau's Warning Service...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all,

I agree and disagree Paul.  I believe that yes, to an extent the BoM's
warning service is fairly good.  However in many cases, severe t'storm
warnings are not issued until after the worst of the t'storm!  Which
really defeats the purpose.  In my opinion, the problem is that the BoM
depends too much on radar, when really what they should be doing is
using the best technology they have for 'nowcasting' - they're eyes.

Also - with warnings being issued, in QLD you have to ring up a 1900
number that costs 75c a minute to get warnings!!  Clearly this is
ludicrous, pay for warnings that the BoM should issue free of charge for
the safety of all??

A clearly agree with the tornado watch and warnings that should be
issued.  Another thing though, is that perhaps the BoM should try and
work out a "t'storm severity scale" of which they could say, and educate
the public to know that if a scale of "1" is given, then you can expect
possible severe t'storms, but if a scale of "5" is given - you can
expect possible damaging hail, wind squalls, flash flooding and
tornadoes.

Just my thoughts,
Anthony


Paul Graham wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
>         I have been reading some of the comments about Australia's severe
> storm warning service and I have to say that I think the severe storm
> warning service, in its current form, generally provides reliable and
> timely warnings in advance of severe weather.  However, I think there
> could be some significant improvements.
> Firstly, I think one of the biggest problems with the service is the
> communication between the Bureau and the people affected.  The problem is
> that not every radio and television station considers it their "top
> prioriety" to broadcast the warnings, and even when they do, they may not
> do so regularly enough or with timeliness.  The Internet and technologies
> such as the Weatheralert data receiver help to solve this problem.
> However, not everyone can afford these technologies.  A severe weather
> warning service should be available to everyone, not just a few
> individuals who can afford the receiving technology.  One possibility is
> to set up a weather radio service like the "NOAA Weather Radio" in the
> United States (actually run by the NWS) but able to be received on a car
> radio (the US service I think requires a VHF receiver).  Another
> possibility is to have roadside warning signs in areas frequently affected
> by severe storms with information about what radio stations to listen to
> for warning information.  Perhaps this could fit in with the idea of a
> weather radio station?  I, myself, am keen to see a high frequency AM
> transmission, (perhaps by way of amateur radio volunteers or the WIA) as a
> secondary service for broadcasting the warnings.  That way, with
> relatively cheap transmitter and receiver techonology and only a few
> transmitter sites (compared with VHF FMor a MW AM transmission), the areas
> most affected by severe weather can be covered.
>         Secondly, I think the timescale on which warnigs are issued and
> the type of warnings that are issued can be improved.  For example, it
> seems that there are many occassions conducive to severe weather but no
> advisories or warnings are issued until thunderstorms have developed or
> damage reports have already been received.  The problem here is that
> although it is important to reduce the number of false alarms (ie. a
> warning is issued but nothing eventuates), it is also important to
> maximise the number of people who are informed of the potential for severe
> weather well in advance of it and so have time to prepare.  Given that
> most thunderstorms occur during daylight hours when the supply of solar
> radiation is greatest, and that most people work during these hours and so
> may not always be available to listen for warnings, it would be a
> significant improvement if information about severe weather potential were
> made available early in the forecast period rather than waiting to see if
> thunderstorms are developing and then issuing the warning.  For example,
> based on morning radiosonde data and mesoscale analysis, the likliehood of
> severe thunderstorm development for a region can be assessed and an
> appropriate warning issued in the morning rather than once storms are
> starting to develop in the afternoon.  This is where the type of warning
> to be issued is important and where I see some further improvements could
> be made.
> The current system in NSW is such that if there is the potential for
> severe storms in a region, a "Severe Thunderstorm Advice" is issued
> perhaps a few hours in advance giving the people affected an idea of what
> to expect (eg. large hail and destructive wind).  If a major population
> center is affected, then a "Severe Thunderstorm Warning" is issued (I
> think only for Sydney at this stage).  However, I think it would be better
> to develop a system where the current "Severe Thunderstorm Advice" is
> issued earlier in the forecast period, long before storms have developed,
> a "Severe Thunderstorm Watch" is issued later in the forecast period once
> it can be determined where the storms are most likely to occur (perhaps
> when convective activity is beginning to appear on radar), and a "Severe
> Thunderstorm Warning" is issued once thunderstorms have been detected on
> radar and they are likely to be severe.
> Thirdly, with regards to tornado forecasting, although tornadoes are not
> as common in Australia as the in US midwest, I think that a "Tornado
> Watch" product could be included with a "Severe Thunderstorm Watch" for a
> region if radiosonde data (eg. Helicity, CAPE, BRN etc...) indicates the
> potential for tornadic storms to develop.  A "Tornado Warning" could be
> included as part of a "Severe Thunderstorm Warning" if radar indicates the
> possibility (eg. a "hook" or "bow" echo) or a funnel cloud is sighted.
> Outlined above are some changes which I think could make the severe storm
> warning service more effective, especially with regards to communicating
> the warnings.  In the end, no warning system can be perfect and people
> should not expect it to be or blame weather forecasters for storm damage.
> What do people think about these ideas?
> Cheers,
>         Paul G.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "McDonald" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Longreach
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:34:19 +1100
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Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all,

Good to see the radar is still here.  You wanna see something good - check
the Coffs Harbour radar and get a load of the cell just off the coast.

----------
> From: Kevin Phyland 
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: aussie-weather: Longreach
> Date: Saturday, 28 November 1998 17:04
> 
> Hi every1,
> Check out the Longreach local radar! Nice echoes!
> Kevin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:04:24 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Lots of Stuff.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi Paul,

thundery showers are actually caused by lightning - however, sheet
lightning and is often very weak.

Anthony

Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:
> 
> Howdy All!!
> 
> I have a few matters to raise:
> 
> 1. The first meeting of the New Society (no name chosen yet...........thats
> the first decision) will be on Thursday, 3rd December 1998 at 6.30pm at the
> Macquarie Uni. David Croan (howdy David!) will advise the room Number (I
> hope) . Agenda will be:
> 
>      1. Name of Assoc.
>      2. Election of Office Bearers. (What, how many & who to be decided on
> the night)
>      3. Adoption (or creation of) a constitution.
>      4. Setting of membership fees.
>      5. General Business.
> 
> 2. Good to hear that some people got some action on the weekend. We got a
> thundery shower yesterday, exactly as the BOM predicted!
> 
> 3. The aftermath of the east Coast Low: Rainfall figures were Wed: 74.1,
> Thurs: 17.4, Fri: 10.7mm. So far this month we have had 190.2mm, which is
> almost 3 times the monthly average for Taree!
> 
> 4. Remember when Jimmy (gday Jimmy) raised the topic of the full moon &
> rainfall, and the correlation. Well I have had a quick look and guess what!
> Its proving to be soemwhat accurate. October Full moon was clear, giving
> below average rainfall for that month. November full moon was raining,
> giving above average rainfall!! Coincidence....most likely, but..........??
> 
> 5. What causes Thundery showers?? We know that the most likely cause of
> thunder is the superheating of air molecules when lightning passes through
> it, but when you have thundery showers without Lightning, what causes the
> thunder? Warm & cold air masses colliding??
> 
> 6. We too have TS predicted all week, so lets hope we all get some!!
> 
> 7. Nick, Greg & Matt Smith: Did u get the surprises, and if so........thanx
> for telling me!!
> 
> 8. What about the relationship between Animals & seveer weather? I give you
> this instance. The "storm" bird. More commonly know as the spoon billed
> ..................sumthin (ask Matt from Blaxland). Whenever it calls, it
> is supposed to indicate storms. The last 2 occasions for storms here the
> bird caled, and both times we had storms & heavy rain?? Maybe it sense the
> lowering of air pressure & rising humidity? Anyone got ideas? Any more
> examples.??
> 
> 9. For Nick, Greg & Matt, I have now contacted a Ian Sheppard who is the
> Severe Storm Manager for the NT BOM. He is going to help us out with
> regards to a few matters. I am also trying to organise a tour of the severe
> storm section as well. So fingers crossed.
> 
> 10. In relation to lightning detection, I have emailed Northpower (which is
> the NE NSW main power provider) with regards to putting there lightining
> detection data on the net. They are getting back to me.
> 
> Big email I know, but lots of topics!!
> 
> Paul from Taree.

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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:23:22 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
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Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Animals and severe weather
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

This reminds me about something that happened on Oct 13...that morning
my cats were acting very strangely, they're never inside in the morning
except for milk.  After that they're never to be seen until when I
arrive home, but rather one kept on trying to pry into one of the
cupboards and the other was behind the couch - and both were very
jumpy.  When I returned, the dining table was a mess, with one of them
still sitting on it.  Certainly I thought this was wierd, I've often
wondered about weather and animals.

Anthony

"W.A. (Bill) Webb" wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul n all
> 
> Recently Paul wrote, amongst other things:
> 
> >8. What about the relationship between Animals & severe weather? I give >you
> >this instance. The "storm" bird. More commonly know as the spoon billed
> >..................sumthin
> 
> "cuckoo" is the bird referred to as a storm bird. I know it as a
> largeish grey bird, quite common in this area around the normal storm
> time from October on. There is also another cuckoo, black and noisy,
> which is often called a storm bird.
> 
> I think they are common, and noisy, in this area come spring-early
> summer - which coincides with the storm season - hence the connection.
> But who knows?
> 
> Commonly, black cockatoos are also associated with rain - depending on
> your point of view, the number of birds represents either the amopunt of
> rain (in inches) or the number of days to rain. Again, their arrival on
> the coast from the west coincides with the increased probability of
> rain.
> 
> An interesting story was related to me by a mate who was camped on a
> beach off Proserpine when cyclone Ada hit in 1970. There were numerous
> scrub turkeys around his camp up until 24 hours before the blow hit.
> They dissappeared (into the scrub). Probably didn't do them much good,
> as the scrub was nothing but sticks after the blow! But apparently they
> knew!
> 
> There are many more animal/weather stories of course, too many to
> continue with here. I heard an interview on a radio recently with a
> woman who had compiled them into a book - can't help more than that, but
> a library may.
> 
> cheers
> --
> Bill Webb
> Proserpine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:22:09 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Subject: aussie-weather: oh crap!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

hey,
we are currently getting a huge storm. i can see one cell to the north! and
the one that has moved up from ballina is currently over head!! hepas of cg
lightning! gota get off computer!! looks good on the radar!!
steve from gold coast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:35:19 +1100
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Bureau's Warning Service...
From: "Mark Hardy" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

it is highly probable that the BoM will soon shift all telephone warnings
from 1900 to 1300 (flat 25c). This should happen in about a week from now.

Mark

----------
>From: Anthony Cornelius 
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Bureau's Warning Service...
>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 5:37 PM
>

>Hi all,
>
>I agree and disagree Paul.  I believe that yes, to an extent the BoM's
>warning service is fairly good.  However in many cases, severe t'storm
>warnings are not issued until after the worst of the t'storm!  Which
>really defeats the purpose.  In my opinion, the problem is that the BoM
>depends too much on radar, when really what they should be doing is
>using the best technology they have for 'nowcasting' - they're eyes.
>
>Also - with warnings being issued, in QLD you have to ring up a 1900
>number that costs 75c a minute to get warnings!!  Clearly this is
>ludicrous, pay for warnings that the BoM should issue free of charge for
>the safety of all??
>
>A clearly agree with the tornado watch and warnings that should be
>issued.  Another thing though, is that perhaps the BoM should try and
>work out a "t'storm severity scale" of which they could say, and educate
>the public to know that if a scale of "1" is given, then you can expect
>possible severe t'storms, but if a scale of "5" is given - you can
>expect possible damaging hail, wind squalls, flash flooding and
>tornadoes.
>
>Just my thoughts,
>Anthony

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:54:06 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Caloundra TORNADO
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Ira,

I was in the Sunshine Coast when this occurred, the tornado destroyed a
brick duplex home.  How destroyed, I'm not sure, but the "Sunshine Coast
Daily" did show a house with it's roof completely torn off (a normal
sloped roof) except for a some of the lumbar support beams.  I agree
with James, F2 or F3 but most likely F2.  Eight houses were damaged. 
The area of streets that were affected (Hume St etc) are between a thin
strip of residential development between a nature reserve and the
ocean.  Any tornado occurring here would have only given limited damage
to building structures as it was not given a 'chance' to do any more
structural damage.

Anthony

Ira wrote:
> 
> James Chambers wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I just saw a report on the Ch 10 5pm news that Caloundra was hit by a
> > tornado.  There were eyewitness reports of a cone shaped cloud and branches
> > swirling around in the air.  I might add the reporter or Ch 10 also said it
> > was the first tornado in Qld for 25 years!!  So I guess we'll have to see
> > other reports about the Caloundra tornado to back it up.  It looked like
> > F2/low F3 damage.
> 
> I did see the news report, impressive. However I must disagree with the
> F-2/F-3 rating. I was'nt there of course, but from what i saw, fences
> were down, some trees were damaged and there was only one house with the
> roof off. This is hardley an F-2. The house was also a two story flat
> roofed home, these are the weakest and eaisily damaged by wind. we had
> an F-0 here in Perth in 96' that deroofed a block of flats and one home.
> Remember an F-2 will permatley relocate your semi trailer. Anyway thats
> just one fools opinion. i have investigated many tornado tracks over the
> years and the footage i saw was didnt look like F-2/F-3 material.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:08:22 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re: Tornado in SE QLD
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

The Brisbane shire is not "TC rated" but from the Pine Rivers and
Caboolture shire northwards is (Pine Rivers shire and the Brisbane shire
are right next to each other)  There have been pushes to get Brisbane TC
rated, but it wasn't because it was going to cost more money I *think*.
But it's pretty stupid that Brisbane isn't TC rated if you ask me.

Caloundra is TC rated from my knowledge, and subsequently should be
stronger then houses in Brisbane.

Anthony

Ira wrote:
> 
> Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:
> >
> > Howdy all. Just thought I would put a bit more in the pot to stir
> > things..............
> >
> > If I remeber correctly, QLD has a building requirement requiring certain
> > "cyclone" structures does it not? So therefore, it may downplay the
> > strength of any severe events such as Tornados & cyclones due to
> > strengthened buildings...........just a thought.
> >
> > Paul
> 
> True, maybe someone over there may be able to find out some more
> details. Do the bureau over there even map and rate tornadoes? The house
> i saw was on old two strory fibro home.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ben Tichborne" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: Storm lashes northern NZ
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 22:23:14 +1300
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The first real storm this month is currently lashing the northern half of
the North Island with east to northeast gales and some heavy rain. Seems
like it's the first real taste of La Nina. Meanwhile the South Island is
fine and settled. The West Coasters, after months of record rain, have had
very little this month, and many people now want rain!. Actually the need
for some good rain is due to the earlier heavy falls, which have left the
ground very muddy. Warm, sunny weather has now solidified the mud, and rain
is needed to wash it away.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "James Chambers" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: oh crap!; bris storms
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:13:15 +1000
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Steve!

They were awesome cauliflowers I saw to the SSE today over the top of you.
They reached very high into the atmosphere - probably 15-16km at some
stages.  Cumuli anvils - nothing fibrous.  Backsheared cumuli anvils!
Plenty of Cloud-air strikes - in fact any type of lightning really. (I
didn't see ball lightning!)

As I was at the shopping centre roof watching early stages of these beasts,
my best mammatus for several years was right overhead associated with what
was going to be my 2nd storm of the day.

Back to the Gold Coast storms, they were particularly huge at sunset and
were backlit beautifully - which meant great video and some stills!  If I
had a good camera, I would have taken some brilliant lightning photos, but I
don't so I didn't.

So, my place had 15mm from 2 ok small storms with some close CGs.  They
didn't compare with the ones over the coast.  Not a bad day however!

James from Brisbane



>hey,
>we are currently getting a huge storm. i can see one cell to the north! and
>the one that has moved up from ballina is currently over head!! hepas of cg
>lightning! gota get off computer!! looks good on the radar!!
>steve from gold coast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:06:20 +0800
From: Ira 
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Hi all,
        just letting everyone know that we had some huge storms here in
WA today. I saw 3 supercells one funnel cloud and one tornado. Yes thats
not a misprint it crossed a road about 5k's in front of me. Small F-0. I
will do a chase report tommorrow so i'll tel you all about it then. Ive
just done 650k's and im absoulutley buggered,
 
                                  Ira Fehlberg