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Storm News
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Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: 31st December 1998 |
From Subject
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001 "Jimmy Deguara" [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Rain - Turramurra
002 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au East Coast Lows.
003 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Medai & BOM Responsibility re: Severe Weather
004 steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au] reporting from the gold coast
005 "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au] Hi Paul
006 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au reporting from the gold coast
007 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Hi Paul
008 "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au] Down South
009 "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au] Orange Weather
010 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Medai & BOM Responsibility re: Severe Weather
011 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Contempt.
012 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Orange Weather
013 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Contempt.
014 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Contempt.
015 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au TC Formation in the Gulf.
016 Phil Bagust [mail.cobweb.com.au at redback.cobwe East Coast Lows.
017 steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au] TC Formation in the Gulf.
018 Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au] TC Formation in the Gulf.
019 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Contempt.
020 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Sydney Report
021 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Contempt.
022 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] TC Formation in the Gulf.
023 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Contempt.
024 wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams) Blackheath -- thick fog
025 "Andrew Treloar" [pileus at hotmail.com] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
026 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
027 "Andrew Treloar" [pileus at hotmail.com] Sydney-Hobart Satellite Loop
028 Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au] Contempt.
029 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Contempt.
030 Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
031 disarm at braenet.com.au syd-hobart radar loop/ASWA
032 steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au] cyclone in gulf
033 Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au] East Coast Lows.
034 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
035 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] ASWA venue??
036 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
037 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au ASWA venue??
038 Andrew Puddifer [andypudd at backmeup.net.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
039 "Jimmy Deguara" [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] ASWA venue??
040 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] ASWA venue??
041 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
042 Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
043 Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
044 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
045 "Andrew Treloar" [pileus at hotmail.com] Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
046 "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au] Loggin Off
047 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Happy New Year!!
048 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Strong and Severe Thunderstorms in Lockyer Valley (30mins W
049 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] One Extra Note on the Lockyer Valley Storms
050 "Kevin Phyland" [kjphyland at hotmail.com] Bureau responsibility
051 "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au] Blue Mountains Weather and Happy New Year
052 "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au] ASWA Motto
053 Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au] Pressure Drop with Storm..
054 "Nandina Morris" [nandina at alphalink.com.au] ASWA Motto
055 Ross Portas [rportas at mindless.com] ASWA Motto
056 Ben Quinn [bodie at corplink.com.au] Brisbane rain
057 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Brisbane rain
058 "John Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au] Media & Weather
059 Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au] Naming People...
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001
From: "Jimmy Deguara" [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Rain - Turramurra
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:06:48 +1100
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I was quite surprised to hear from Alan Williams that there was some very
heavy rain of deluge status at Turramurra early this morning. Between 1:30am
and 3am, he received 39mm. However, in between 1:30am and 2am, there was
25mm, most falling in 10 minutes in what could be described as violent
thundering rain due to the large drops.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
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002
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:26:04 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: East Coast Lows.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Andrew. While I may not be able to give it the best meteorological
explanantion as Paul G or Laurier would, East Coast Lows typically form at
the change of seasons on the NE to E Coast of NSW due to the greater
temperature gradients from change of seasons. These see the pools of very
cold air making it somewhat further North then allows in Summer coliding
with the warm air from the Land. This assists with rapid convection and
hence the rapid development of these beasts! (I apologise to all Meteo's
out there for such a simplistic view... :-)
Paul G makes a very interesting and valid point with reagrds to a possible
ctaegory for these South Ocean Lows or even east Coast Lows. They are
cyclones lets face it - just Cold centred rather then warm centred. The BOM
could put a warning that say a Cat 2 Southern Low will form and have winds
gusting to....and the areas that may experience weather form that Low. Good
Point Paul G.
Paul.
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003
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:42:20 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: Medai & BOM Responsibility re: Severe Weather
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Well it seems like the BOM may be in for a hard time soon. The NSW State
Coroner is holding an inquest into the deaths of the people associated with
the Sydney to Hobart race. The State Coroner can make any reccommendations
he likes or even recommend that charges be laid for criminal negligence. So
looks like the "weather" and forecasting responsibilities of the BOM and
the distribution of that information will come under the spotlight. Will be
very interesting to see the result.
PS WHERE IS EVERYBODY??
Paul bored sh..less at Taree!
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004
X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
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Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:51:19 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au]
Subject: aussie-weather: reporting from the gold coast
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
hey,
well, i am here on what looks to be a pretty dismal day, weather wise. a
thin layer of overcast type cloud with a slight breeze. but am never up
this early so don't know if this is usual!:) but, don't really care what
happens up here this arvo but more concerned about weather on the way to
grafton. i got a film back yesterday, might whack 'em on the webpage in the
meantime.
see ya guys
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005
From: "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]
To: "Aussie-weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Hi Paul
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:59:03 +1100
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Hi Paul,
Bruce (the brother) lives at Chatham in one of the newer estates on the
river. His backyard goes onto the river.
Dad would be going near your place quite often. His favourite fishing hole
is at Manning Point.
Bruce is not a weather head (unfortunately). He has not got the time. He
and the wife own and run Godwin windows in Grey Gum Road. He covers from
Coffs to Newcastle.
Terry.
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006
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:02:37 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: reporting from the gold coast
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Howdy Steve. Hows it goin? Its much the same here at the moment Humidity at
about 75%, temp about 28c and low level and high level cloud hanging
around. Looks good weather for a storm BUT need that instability to start
something.
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007
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:03:42 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Hi Paul
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Ohh cool I brought my windows from them when I built my house! Shame
though!
Weather is dead as here at the moment. shame that.................
Paul.
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008
From: "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]
To: "Aussie-weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Down South
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:06:00 +1100
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Hi All,
The twin lows in the southern ocean below Australia must be causing any
of the round the world solo yachts some concern. The baro. at about 950-960.
The isobars are fairly close together. I think they would be getting
conditions at least as bad as the Sydney-Hobart mob. Any ideas or knowledge
on this??
Terry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
009
From: "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]
To: "Aussie-weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Orange Weather
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:13:13 +1100
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Nothing exciting. A little wispy cirrus cloud
Temp 23 Baro 1019 Hum 20 Breeze NE about 2-3 Knots.
ANOTHER BORING DAY
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010
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Medai & BOM Responsibility re: Severe Weather
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:15:14 +1100
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> Well it seems like the BOM may be in for a hard time soon. The NSW State
> Coroner is holding an inquest into the deaths of the people associated
with
> the Sydney to Hobart race. The State Coroner can make any
reccommendations
> he likes or even recommend that charges be laid for criminal negligence.
So
> looks like the "weather" and forecasting responsibilities of the BOM and
> the distribution of that information will come under the spotlight. Will
be
> very interesting to see the result.
>
> PS WHERE IS EVERYBODY??
>
Hmmm, Hi Paul,
I feel it would be a very bad day if the BoM were the scape goats for what
happened in the Sydney to Hobart.
Everyone on this list knows that storm cells/Low preasure systems and so on
have a mind of there own. They can increase and decrease in size in a few
hours. That had forcast that one it just came through stronger then they
thought.
You do ask and interesting question though, what would/will/could he
change?
Hmmmmm, I'll have to think about that.
Lets just be careful what we right as we may be held in contemp if we are
not careful.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
011
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:27:18 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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We are safe as we are not in contempt because we are not presuming to
affect the outcome of the investigation. Coroners Courts are not bound by
the rules of evidence which therefore brings in a greater scope of
investigation. It is not a criminal trial and normally held in open Court.
And we are not publishing the Casee - we are merely speculating. Therefore
the rules of contempt do not apply to us. The rules are there more for
Criminal matters whereby you have a Jury who can be persuaded by media
reporting. The Coroners Court does not have a Jury and as such are not
persuadable.
Paul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
012
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Orange Weather
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:27:06 +1100
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----------
> From: Terry Bishop
> To: Aussie-weather
> Subject: aussie-weather: Orange Weather
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 10:13
>
> Nothing exciting. A little wispy cirrus cloud
> Temp 23 Baro 1019 Hum 20 Breeze NE about 2-3 Knots.
>
Morning Terry,
Much the same here,
24% with 78% Humidity.
1019 mb Overcast with a little drizzle.
Hmmmm...boring here as well.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
013
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:43:39 +1100
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----------
> From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: aussie-weather: Contempt.
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 11:27
>
>
>
> We are safe as we are not in contempt because we are not presuming to
> affect the outcome of the investigation. Coroners Courts are not bound by
> the rules of evidence which therefore brings in a greater scope of
> investigation. It is not a criminal trial and normally held in open
Court.
> And we are not publishing the Casee - we are merely speculating.
Therefore
> the rules of contempt do not apply to us. The rules are there more for
> Criminal matters whereby you have a Jury who can be persuaded by media
> reporting. The Coroners Court does not have a Jury and as such are not
> persuadable.
>
Now that interests me,
I was told, when a car crashed at a motor racing event, I was not allowed
to even say why I thought the car had crashed otherwise I could be held in
contempt.
>From what you have said, the information I have was not right.
That is very interesting.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
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014
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:59:32 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Well that may be a matter for professional ethics, but, and Im not an
expert, I would suggest that that is not a contempt matter. Mozely &
Whitely's Law dictionary describes contempt as: "Anything which plainly
tends to create a disregard of the authority of Courts of Justice. Being a
Coroner myself, I would think that It would not be contempt .
Paul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
015
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:00:54 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: TC Formation in the Gulf.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
A Tropical cyclone watch has been issued for Southern Gulf communities. BOm
expect it to form within the next 12 hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
016
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Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:08:09 +0930
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Phil Bagust [mail.cobweb.com.au at redback.cobweb.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: East Coast Lows.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Paul G makes a very interesting and valid point with reagrds to a possible
>ctaegory for these South Ocean Lows or even east Coast Lows. They are
>cyclones lets face it - just Cold centred rather then warm centred. The BOM
>could put a warning that say a Cat 2 Southern Low will form and have winds
>gusting to....and the areas that may experience weather form that Low. Good
>Point Paul G.
I may be hallucinating, but I'm sure I read somewhere that at least some
east coast lows were warm centred, which might account for their intense
winds and rain, compact size and 'look' on satellite photos.
I too, would like to learn more about these beasties........
>From a stable as **** Adelaide......
Phil
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017
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Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:14:18 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: TC Formation in the Gulf.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
yeah, i've been watching that the past couple of days, its been hanging
around there for ages!! it looked as though it was getting a spinning
action going!
steve
At 11:00 AM 12/31/98 +1000, you wrote:
>
>
>A Tropical cyclone watch has been issued for Southern Gulf communities. BOm
>expect it to form within the next 12 hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
018
X-Sender: disarm at mail.braenet.com.au
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Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:32:20 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: TC Formation in the Gulf.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
great to finally see that cloud mass in the gulf turn into something..
here in inner west sydney at 11am it was 20.8 degrees with a dew point of
19.1 and wind was SE at about 10 knots but its died off a bit now, overcast
and showery conditions.. i believe the forcast said fine the next few days? :)
as the saying goes, Another Boring Day , Oh yes and dont forget tonight at
9pm on the National Geographic channel , there is that show about Storm
Chasers on again.
Matt in sydney.
>
>
>A Tropical cyclone watch has been issued for Southern Gulf communities. BOm
>expect it to form within the next 12 hours.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
019
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:19:30 +1100
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Thanks for that.
That gives me some food for thought.
Thanks
******************************************
Grant Boyden
http://www.zeta.org.au/~boyden/storm
http://www.2ky.com.au
IRC = au.austnet.org and #2kyRacing port 6667
ICQ = 23511159
******************************************
----------
> From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 11:59
>
>
>
> Well that may be a matter for professional ethics, but, and Im not an
> expert, I would suggest that that is not a contempt matter. Mozely &
> Whitely's Law dictionary describes contempt as: "Anything which plainly
> tends to create a disregard of the authority of Courts of Justice. Being
a
> Coroner myself, I would think that It would not be contempt .
>
> Paul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
020
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Sydney Report
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:28:08 +1100
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Rain now falling in Syndey.
No Storm Just Rain
******************************************
Grant Boyden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
021
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:31:34 +1100
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I am very greatful for you view on that. It's been one that has worried me
for a while.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
http://www.zeta.org.au/~boyden/storm
http://www.2ky.com.au
IRC = au.austnet.org and #2kyRacing port 6667
ICQ = 23511159
******************************************
----------
> From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 11:59
>
>
>
> Well that may be a matter for professional ethics, but, and Im not an
> expert, I would suggest that that is not a contempt matter. Mozely &
> Whitely's Law dictionary describes contempt as: "Anything which plainly
> tends to create a disregard of the authority of Courts of Justice. Being
a
> Coroner myself, I would think that It would not be contempt .
>
> Paul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
022
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: TC Formation in the Gulf.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:34:10 +1100
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Yeah Matt much the same up here at Hurstville a little warmer though I have
23% at the moment and It's raining.
cry cry cry
:-(
******************************************
Grant Boyden
http://www.zeta.org.au/~boyden/storm
http://www.2ky.com.au
IRC = au.austnet.org and #2kyRacing port 6667
ICQ = 23511159
******************************************
----------
> From: Matt Smith
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aussie-weather: TC Formation in the Gulf.
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 11:32
>
> great to finally see that cloud mass in the gulf turn into something..
>
> here in inner west sydney at 11am it was 20.8 degrees with a dew point of
> 19.1 and wind was SE at about 10 knots but its died off a bit now,
overcast
> and showery conditions.. i believe the forcast said fine the next few
days? :)
>
> as the saying goes, Another Boring Day , Oh yes and dont forget tonight
at
> 9pm on the National Geographic channel , there is that show about Storm
> Chasers on again.
>
> Matt in sydney.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
023
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 11:43:04 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
NO Probs. Anything that I can assist you on I will. Just give me a call
anytime.
Regards, paul
PS Its great to see that Matt Smith is out of bed now!
And where is matthew Piper these days?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
024
From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Blackheath -- thick fog
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:44:04 GMT
X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id LAA04523
Extraordinarily thick fog here at Blackheath from about midnight and
continuing. Visibility has been around 15 to 30m the whole time, with
temp 15/16C. Fogs are pretty common here, but this is one of the
longest continuously thick (<30m by my own definition) ones we've had
for the past year. It's been accompanied by a continuous thick
drizzle, giving 5.0mm in my gauge in the 24 hrs to 09.00 -- Katoomba
had 4, and Mt Boyce (2km away from me on the western side of the
ridge) only 2mm. Wind has been light E to NE throughout.
--
Laurier Williams
Australian Weather Links and News
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
025
X-Originating-Ip: [134.178.120.58]
From: "Andrew Treloar" [pileus at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:18:40 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Paul, Grant, David and others,
I have enjoyed reading the discussion on warning distribution. Here's
what happens at the BOM end in NSW. When we issue a severe thunderstorm
advice or warning, it is sent by fax directly to all radio and TV
stations that we know of in the area under threat (it is also available
immediately on Internet and pollfax servers).
We then rely on media cooperation in broadcasting these to the public.
In order to help the media understand the working of our warning
service, we issue a Media Information Package each year in cooperation
with the NSW SES. Well over a hundred copies were handed out direct by
us this year and many others no doubt copied and passed on to their
local media by the SES. We also hosted with SES a launch of the 1998/99
"Severe Storm Season" on 8 Sept that received good media coverage,
particularly outside of the Sydney area. You may recall that this is the
time the election was called!
To assist in their broadcast, our advices and warnings all have a start
and finish time and are updated when necessary (warnings every 30-60
mins). Some radio and TV stations are particularly good with reading out
our messages, or displaying them as crawlers, and the communities they
cover undoubtably benefit from this. Following the Yamba-Byron Bay storm
we asked people to ring us with information on the storm. Of the 2 dozen
or so people who took the time to do that, about 20% had heard the
advice.
Andrew
BOM, NSW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
026
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:24:22 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Great Mail Andrew. Appreciate it. But doesnt that worry the BOm? Only 1 in
5 people heard the warning? That is a little worrying to me. Have you any
suggestions? I'd appreciate any comment, as Im not here to knock the BOM as
I beleive they do they best job with what little resources are given to
them (such as any Govt Dept.!)
Regards Paul Mossman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
027
X-Originating-Ip: [134.178.120.58]
From: "Andrew Treloar" [pileus at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sydney-Hobart Satellite Loop
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:37:38 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Everyone,
An interesting satellite loop from 25-27 Dec covering the low
development during the Sydney-Hobart is now available at:
http://www.bom.gov.au/reguser/by_prod/satellite/Syd-Hob.shtml
Andrew
BOM, NSW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
028
X-Sender: disarm at mail.braenet.com.au
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:50:39 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Matt Smith [disarm at braenet.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Paul Paul Paul
what do you mean its good to see im out of bed ???
a very confused Matt
>
>
>NO Probs. Anything that I can assist you on I will. Just give me a call
>anytime.
>Regards, paul
>
>PS Its great to see that Matt Smith is out of bed now!
>And where is matthew Piper these days?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
029
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:45:42 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Contempt.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
heheeh well I just remember the Darwin trip................. heheheheeh :-)
and your liking for a nice long sleep in........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
030
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:48:03 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Andrew and everyone,
In a previous message to this list (a couple of months ago -
archive on Michael B's australiansevereweather.simplenet.com) I mentioned
the possibility of setting up a radio network specifically for storm
warnings (like the NOAA weather radio in the US). Do you think this
would be feasible? This would allow a continuous update of the storm
situation rather than having to wait for a local radio station which may
only broadcast the warning once in the advice period.
My idea would be to have a scattering of MW or HF AM radio
stations for this purpose - I believe the US NOAA weather radio is only
available to those with the right type of receiver (I think it's on VHF).
Such a network should be as widely accessible as possible, so ideally you
would want to be able to receive it on a normal AM/FM car radio.
What do you think of these ideas?
- Paul G.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
paul at marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au
----------------------------
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Andrew Treloar wrote:
> Hi Paul, Grant, David and others,
>
> I have enjoyed reading the discussion on warning distribution. Here's
> what happens at the BOM end in NSW. When we issue a severe thunderstorm
> advice or warning, it is sent by fax directly to all radio and TV
> stations that we know of in the area under threat (it is also available
> immediately on Internet and pollfax servers).
>
> We then rely on media cooperation in broadcasting these to the public.
> In order to help the media understand the working of our warning
> service, we issue a Media Information Package each year in cooperation
> with the NSW SES. Well over a hundred copies were handed out direct by
> us this year and many others no doubt copied and passed on to their
> local media by the SES. We also hosted with SES a launch of the 1998/99
> "Severe Storm Season" on 8 Sept that received good media coverage,
> particularly outside of the Sydney area. You may recall that this is the
> time the election was called!
>
> To assist in their broadcast, our advices and warnings all have a start
> and finish time and are updated when necessary (warnings every 30-60
> mins). Some radio and TV stations are particularly good with reading out
> our messages, or displaying them as crawlers, and the communities they
> cover undoubtably benefit from this. Following the Yamba-Byron Bay storm
> we asked people to ring us with information on the storm. Of the 2 dozen
> or so people who took the time to do that, about 20% had heard the
> advice.
>
> Andrew
> BOM, NSW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
031
From: disarm at braenet.com.au
X-Sender: disarm at braenet.com.au (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:01:27 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: syd-hobart radar loop/ASWA
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Woah that loop is taking me 11 minutes go get at around 3.7k/second, those
with slower modems be prepared for a long download..
Only had 2 replys to the ASWA sub committee, so please mail me if your
interested.
Matt Smith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
032
X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:05:10 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au]
Subject: aussie-weather: cyclone in gulf
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
warning has been cancelled, 996hpa should cross inland bringing floods.
steve
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
033
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:07:54 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: East Coast Lows.
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Hi Andrew P, Paul and everyone else,
I guess someone at the Bureau would be in the best position to
explain everything about east coast lows.
From what I know, they tend to form along the coast where the
temperature gradient in the sea is greatest since there is a tongue of
warm water, some distance out to sea, flowing down the east coast of
Australia. I think that frictional drag of surface air moving over land
may slow the wind deflecting it seaward, therefore aiding in offshore
convergence. They also tend to intensify during the night
(destabilisation due to radiative cooling of the atmopshere?).
They can be warm or cold cored depending on their origin. For
example, they may be the result of a tropical cyclone moving south, an
inland low moving off the coast, a NE flow along the eastern seaboard from
a high in the Tasman, or a cold front moving over the warm sea. In all
these cases, there is some sort of upper air disturbance that favours
development.
- Paul G.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
paul at marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au
----------------------------
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:
>
>
> Hi Andrew. While I may not be able to give it the best meteorological
> explanantion as Paul G or Laurier would, East Coast Lows typically form at
> the change of seasons on the NE to E Coast of NSW due to the greater
> temperature gradients from change of seasons. These see the pools of very
> cold air making it somewhat further North then allows in Summer coliding
> with the warm air from the Land. This assists with rapid convection and
> hence the rapid development of these beasts! (I apologise to all Meteo's
> out there for such a simplistic view... :-)
>
> Paul G makes a very interesting and valid point with reagrds to a possible
> ctaegory for these South Ocean Lows or even east Coast Lows. They are
> cyclones lets face it - just Cold centred rather then warm centred. The BOM
> could put a warning that say a Cat 2 Southern Low will form and have winds
> gusting to....and the areas that may experience weather form that Low. Good
> Point Paul G.
>
> Paul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
034
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:50:48 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
----------
> From: Paul Graham
> In a previous message to this list (a couple of months ago -
> archive on Michael B's australiansevereweather.simplenet.com) I mentioned
> the possibility of setting up a radio network specifically for storm
> warnings (like the NOAA weather radio in the US). Do you think this
> would be feasible? This would allow a continuous update of the storm
> situation rather than having to wait for a local radio station which may
> only broadcast the warning once in the advice period.
> > or so people who took the time to do that, about 20% had heard the
> > advice.
> >
> > Andrew
> > BOM, NSW
That is a great idea and should be done.....exept!!!
One the ABA ( Australian Broadcasting Ass.) do not have enoght frquencies
to do this.
If they did/do they would go up for auction and would cost an arm or a leg,
or both.
They do not give anything away anymore.
If you could set up that type of a network, there would be no set frq.
which would mean each town u would go to would have to be on a frq between
87.5 - 91.0 FM and they would only be 1-10 watts max.
This would not really help some one.
The idea is a good one, just in practice it would not work I fee.
I really do no the answer and It was good to read Andrews view point.
I would guess from that, that his fax would go to AAP who would type the
data up and send it out to 2UE, 2GB, 2DAY, MMM and 2KY and all the others.
That seems to me to be why we have a delay in getting the data.
I don't want to fly the flag of 2KY but, we treat all storm reports as high
priority as we broadcast to nearly evry toiwn in the state. If we can help,
with up to date data there would be no problem having some type of code of
conduct put into operation at the station so as the data is give out
straight away.
Sorry to harp on this but, if the data was available we could put a
computer in the studio so as the annoucer could zoom in on the storm and
give reports. So could all the other stations and it wouldn't cost much, if
the data was free.
Interesting though and Andrew thanks for writting. It's nice to hear the
view of the otherside in this discussion.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
035
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 12:57:09 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA venue??
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all,
I was just wondering, I know that this is not very official, but until
ASWA really gets on its feet, would it be better to hold meetings in a
person's house then to hold them at a venue? This would certainly cut
down any costs if there are no free venue's available. This would work
well if there are not too many people (say under 10)
Just a suggestion,
Anthony
Jimmy Deguara wrote:
>
> Hi Jimmy Deguara here
>
> My job was to get hold of some venue. Does anyone in Sydney know of a
> central venue Blacktown to Parramatta or something where we could stage our
> meetings. Otherwise, we will have to hold the meetings at Blacktown Workers
> until we find a proper one.
>
> We have to apply in writing if we wish to try and get venues free of charge.
> Otherwise, they charge $50 an hour for function rooms. As a non-profit
> organisation, some organisations particularly charities are able to do this
> without paying for the venue. It has to be decided by the management of that
> particular venue if they are to waive the fee.
>
> Any ideas, e-mail me directly or post it on the list to stimulate other
> ideas. Typically Golf clubs, Bowling clubs, League Clubs etc with a view to
> the west are ideal. As long as they are free.
>
> Jimmy Deguara
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
036
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:01:47 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Paul - I agree with the siren, I mean - Brisbane had the supercell on
October 13, with either a F1 tornado, or winds with F1 damage, and then
10cm hail on December 16 - both were in city, or it's immediate
surroundings (ie Fortitude valley is right beside the Brisbane CBD) yet,
the siren wasn't used? I know they don't want to cause panic, but
still...
My 2cents,
Anthony
Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:
>
> For some time this has been worrying me. It was all the more evident when I
> was in Darwin and saw how the media handled the TC Thelma. A bulletin was
> on every hour, describing its location with recent satpics, radar (on
> differing channels) and a constant warning tone & flashing letters. Updated
> Bulletins from the BOm every 3 hours provided the necessary info &
> warnings. It leads me to this:- with all the current devastation from
> severe storms in Australia, and my recent experience with what I believe
> was a mesocyclonic Supercell - the warning system is totally inadequate.
> And its not the BOms fault either. The local radio stations in the
> Yamba/Ballina/Lismore areas DID NOT EVEN mention the weather let alone the
> severe storm warnings that were issued (I was listening to the heat Fm
> station.) This caused many people to be caught totally unawares, especially
> regarding the fact that the storm came from literally "nowhere" and caused
> such devastation & loss.
>
> I just heard again an advertisement for the natural disaster warning tone
> on the radio, advising people if they hear that then there is going to be a
> urgent message which they need to listen to? Why is this not being used for
> Severe Storm warnings? Indeed the North Coast storms possibly caused more
> damage then the Cat 5 TC Thlema did, yet NO warnings were received by most
> of the population that were effected!
>
> It is amazing that no real issues have yet been raised by those most
> effected inc farmers with regards to these warning systems. I realise that
> some people don't want to panic people unnecessarily or become too
> "Americanised" BUT peoples safety should be paramount to the adage "she'll
> be right mate!" Certainly If my property had been damage due to inadequate
> warning, I would be causing some stir. Now I realise that sometimes even
> warnings are not going to stop property damage, BUT will stop loss of life
> (hopefully). Maybe this is something we as an Association can change. I am
> going to try and approach NBN ( a local TV station) with regards to
> implementing this, and what their thoughts are (considering that they cover
> a large area of affected places inc NW Slopes, NE, etc.)
>
> Hopefully some of the BOM guys/gals are listening and I would appreciate
> their comments esp. if this Assoc can be of assistance to them.
>
> While I am raising some contentious issues, how about the weekend weather
> services! Are they not shit! What a load of crap (not the BOMs - the
> media's). The last 4 days of the holiday weekend all we have had is Sunny -
> no outlooks, no District forecasts, no anything! Not even a satpic! Crap
> crap crap.................
>
> Anyways, appreciate all your thoughts.
>
> Regards, Paul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
037
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:04:27 +1000
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA venue??
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Thats the Prob Anthony, we could have 15 or more at the Sydney meeting (if
all goes well.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
038
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:11:27 +1100
From: Andrew Puddifer [andypudd at backmeup.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Grant,
Well, you really wouldn't want to use FM anyway because of it's higher
set up costs and it's limited range(line of sight). AM or SW frequencies
would be fairly cheap to set up and I'm sure a lot of amateur radio
operators would love to be involved in that sort of thing.
Just as a pioint of interest for everyone, most medium to large
airports have an automatic weather frequency which constantly broadcasts
conditions for a fairly large area around the field, including the
position of active storms. All you need is a fairly cheap scanner to
pick them up.
Regards, Andrew Pudifer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
039
From: "Jimmy Deguara" [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA venue??
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:16:09 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Anthony, Don;t you worry. We are not going to pay for any venue. We are a
non-profit organisation and will have to hold the meeting at clubs until we
get ourselves established. There is a possibility of getting a venue
arranged but I am waiting on verification. Otherwise, we have to apply in
writing to the boards of clubs and so on asking for free use of the function
rooms once a month. Another possibility are universities but I am trying to
stay away from that one.
We will see. If anyone has some contacts who could arrange such a venue on
once a month basis, it would be very much appreciated.
On another note, I would suggest others from other areas of the country
volunteer at least for this year to help establish their branches. It's OK
to say we form a group, but we need people to get involved. This is the most
important part. Please don't feel like you have to get in front and run the
show, you just have to keep a tab on who attended, what is discussed and so
on. So have a go. Anyone who feels they have something to offer in terms of
a need to set up the interstate branches, please cocntact Matt. Remember,
anyone is welcome to do it. If nobody does it, you will have no branch in
your area. The more the merrier. Our first meeting to get things going was a
success and fun too. People got to meet each other, we watched videos
exchanged photographs and stories. This is what you are missing out on by
not having have these type of meetings.
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
----- Original Message -----
>Hi all,
>
>I was just wondering, I know that this is not very official, but until
>ASWA really gets on its feet, would it be better to hold meetings in a
>person's house then to hold them at a venue? This would certainly cut
>down any costs if there are no free venue's available. This would work
>well if there are not too many people (say under 10)
>
>Just a suggestion,
>
>Anthony
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
040
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA venue??
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:18:19 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I'm trying to pull a few contacts and get a place where we can go.
Give me a day or two and I'll have an answer. It will (hopefully) be a
perm. place if all goes according to plan.
I know we are running out of time but, I'll try my best.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
http://www.zeta.org.au/~boyden/storm
http://www.2ky.com.au
IRC = au.austnet.org and #2kyRacing port 6667
ICQ = 23511159
******************************************
----------
> From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA venue??
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 15:04
>
>
>
> Thats the Prob Anthony, we could have 15 or more at the Sydney meeting
(if
> all goes well.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
041
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:31:35 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
----------
> From: Andrew Puddifer
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 14:11
>
> Hi Grant,
>
> Well, you really wouldn't want to use FM anyway because of it's higher
> set up costs and it's limited range(line of sight). AM or SW frequencies
> would be fairly cheap to set up and I'm sure a lot of amateur radio
> operators would love to be involved in that sort of thing.
> Just as a pioint of interest for everyone, most medium to large
> airports have an automatic weather frequency which constantly broadcasts
> conditions for a fairly large area around the field, including the
> position of active storms. All you need is a fairly cheap scanner to
> pick them up.
>
> Regards, Andrew Pudifer.
The Sydney Atis is very hard to pick up however. I'm at Hurstville and can
almost see the airport but can not get Sydney Atis. I can just get
Bankstowns Atis and I'm sure you'll agree that they are one of the best
ways to track a cell that is coming over Sydney.
If you used AM that would work but to cover the state you would still need
a number of them.
FM is the only TX's that are being given out at the moment.
If you used SW the only problem would be no one would be listening.
Don't get me wrong please. I agree with everything, everone is saying, I
just do not think they would work well enough that way.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
042
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:40:30 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Yes, having an amateur radio licence myelf, I think it would be good to
set up a volunteer network to continuously broadcast warnings on HF - to
save on the cost of installing lots of transmitters (7Mhz would be a good
choice due to wide coverage during the day). The downside of AM is
interference from lightning and other sources.
If a VHF network were setup, you would need a greater number of relay
stations but, using FM, you would have reduced interference.
Also, I think it is important to have such a network as accessible as
possible so it would be desirable to have the broadcasts within either the
AM/MW or FM/VHF broadcast bands. Perhaps a network of low cost and low
powered VHF/FM transmitters within the 88->108Mhz range would be the way
to go? You would need quite a few but if they are in good locations you
can expect fairly wide coverage.
- Paul G.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
paul at marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au
----------------------------
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Andrew Puddifer wrote:
> Hi Grant,
>
> Well, you really wouldn't want to use FM anyway because of it's higher
> set up costs and it's limited range(line of sight). AM or SW frequencies
> would be fairly cheap to set up and I'm sure a lot of amateur radio
> operators would love to be involved in that sort of thing.
> Just as a pioint of interest for everyone, most medium to large
> airports have an automatic weather frequency which constantly broadcasts
> conditions for a fairly large area around the field, including the
> position of active storms. All you need is a fairly cheap scanner to
> pick them up.
>
> Regards, Andrew Pudifer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
043
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:44:06 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
The other point I forgot to make is that I think such a network would be
of great benefit where severe storms are most frequent. So it may not be
necessary to have coverage for the whole state. It is always expandable
in any case, so you needn't start with every transmitter in place...
- Paul G.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
paul at marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au
----------------------------
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Paul Graham wrote:
> Yes, having an amateur radio licence myelf, I think it would be good to
> set up a volunteer network to continuously broadcast warnings on HF - to
> save on the cost of installing lots of transmitters (7Mhz would be a good
> choice due to wide coverage during the day). The downside of AM is
> interference from lightning and other sources.
> If a VHF network were setup, you would need a greater number of relay
> stations but, using FM, you would have reduced interference.
> Also, I think it is important to have such a network as accessible as
> possible so it would be desirable to have the broadcasts within either the
> AM/MW or FM/VHF broadcast bands. Perhaps a network of low cost and low
> powered VHF/FM transmitters within the 88->108Mhz range would be the way
> to go? You would need quite a few but if they are in good locations you
> can expect fairly wide coverage.
> - Paul G.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
044
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:52:44 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
If ever you did get someting like that going I have all the tech. equipment
needed to run a radio station so those cost would not be a factor.
Just the lic. and transmitters.
Even if there are many problems with setting it up, it's still better then
what we have now.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
http://www.zeta.org.au/~boyden/storm
http://www.2ky.com.au
IRC = au.austnet.org and #2kyRacing port 6667
ICQ = 23511159
******************************************
----------
> From: Paul Graham
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
> Date: Thursday, 31 December 1998 14:40
>
> Yes, having an amateur radio licence myelf, I think it would be good to
> set up a volunteer network to continuously broadcast warnings on HF - to
> save on the cost of installing lots of transmitters (7Mhz would be a good
> choice due to wide coverage during the day). The downside of AM is
> interference from lightning and other sources.
> If a VHF network were setup, you would need a greater number of relay
> stations but, using FM, you would have reduced interference.
> Also, I think it is important to have such a network as accessible as
> possible so it would be desirable to have the broadcasts within either
the
> AM/MW or FM/VHF broadcast bands. Perhaps a network of low cost and low
> powered VHF/FM transmitters within the 88->108Mhz range would be the way
> to go? You would need quite a few but if they are in good locations you
> can expect fairly wide coverage.
> - Paul G.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
045
X-Originating-Ip: [134.178.120.58]
From: "Andrew Treloar" [pileus at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Media Communication of Severe Thunderstorms.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:55:00 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Grant, Pauls, Everyone,
About the broadcating of weather radio etc, there is a system soon to be
released by a company in NSW/Qld where weather warnings can be received
by pager. It was primarily developed for coastal waters forecasts (by
the same people who brought the yachting community "WeatherAlert") but
we have worked with them to extend it to severe ts advices and warnings.
You only get the ones appropriate to the area you are travelling in.
Another option we are exploring is using email for warnings. This
eliminates fax queues.
Andrew
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
046
From: "Grant Boyden" [boyden at zeta.org.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Loggin Off
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:57:16 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I have to log off now to get ready for tonight.
Happy new year everyone hope it a great one for you.
And thanks for all the the discussion, its a lot of fun and hopefully some
good will end up coming out of it.
Talk to you all soon.
******************************************
Grant Boyden
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
047
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:04:10 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: Happy New Year!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Its great to see the discussion. Its excellent. Out of this comes Ideas -
great ones in fact. What we have to do is captivate this enthusiasm and
ideas and generate something out of them.
Great Email Jimmy. Well done! Thats exactly the point. People get involved
- you are missing out on soemthing new, refreshing & special!
Paul
Secretary ASWA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
048
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:05:19 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Australian Weather Mailing List [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Strong and Severe Thunderstorms in Lockyer Valley (30mins W of Brisbane)
on Wednesday 30/12/1998
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all - well, it has come to a surprise to me of Ben Quinn's comments
of the 'weak storms' to the west...and from what I've heard, Brisbane
didn't receive any thunderstorms yesterday! So I thought I'd do a quick
report...
I was awake quite early at my dad's farm (situated in Hiddenvale, 5km S
of Grandchester, which is about 20km SW of Marburg - in the Lockyer
Valley area) At 6am, it was 8/8 overcast, looking very much like rain,
the BoM's forecast was for "cloudy and rain periods." I was hoping it
the cloud might thin out a little, but I wasn't too confident. Although
the DP was 22C, and was 23C at 6am, which wasn't too bad for in the
country. At 8am, there were some breaks in the cloud, it was thinning
out fairly quickly, and I also saw some Altocumulus Castellatus! I
immediately changed my personal forecast to "storm" when I saw this, as
by 8:15-8:30am the sky was screaming "storm!" At 9:15am, while doing
checking the fences on the tractor, I noticed a congestus line to my S.
At 9:45am it was 31C, DP of 23C and a line of congestus/TCU had formed
to the S, and was spreading to the SW. But this remained like this
until 12:05pm. The temperature was now 37.1C, DP still sitting on 23C.
Some Cb Calvus had now formed to the SW, within the next 30mins
updraughts looked rather strong, and the first signs of precipitation
were obverved. By 1pm, thunder could be heard. But this cell actucally
moved north. Another cell had formed to my SSW by 2:00pm. By 2:20pm,
it was looking very nasty with some very deep and dark rain shafts, and
a visible ragged shelf. I was surprised that no warnings had been
issued at this stage.
As there were too many trees for my liking, I then quickly took the
tractor back up to the boundary fence on top of the ridge (I wasn't
feeling too safe with a storm nearby, and being in a tractor with a 2m
tall metal muffler and being the highest object within kilometres!) I
took a few picture and observed the storm, she had a hint of rotation
in it. At the rear of the storm, I observed a funnel shaped, cloud
lowering with rotating scud beneath it. It didn't appear to be a true
funnel, but rather just a cloud lowering that looked like a funnel.
However within about 5 minutes, this began to dissapear and went back up
into the cloud. A visible CG to my S convinced me to drive back as it
would be too dangerous. At 3pm another cell to the SW had formed and
was heading our way. At the same time, the cell the S (previously SSW)
had it's rain shaft divide into two within about 1min, then a rather
obvious cloud lowering came from underneath it (it was difficult to tell
if it had rotation in it or not) However again within a few minutes,
the cloud lowering disappeared and the rain shaft took its place. At
3:15pm, I heard a dull roar from the coming wind. At this time, all of
the insects had stopped chirping, and many of the birds began to fly
away (often associated with the erie 'calm before the storm.' We began
getting S'ly winds of about 30-40km/h, this then proceeded to
40-50km/h. Soon it began to spit, and then light rain came down. Winds
were now gusting to 50-60km/h, but for the next 10minutes, never went
below 40km/h! The rain steadily became heavier, at the heaviest stage,
the rain was pelting to hard on the ground, the gravel on the driveway
was actually getting knocked about, and some of the gravel was 'jumping'
from the impact of the rain! I was expecting some hail, there was a
light green tinge, but fortunately for my dad's car and mum's beloved
cattle - no hail fell. The rain and winds continued to pelt down, gusts
were now 60-70km/h, possibly 75km/h. But no indications of 80km/h winds
in our immediate area. Some small twigs, leaves and branches were also
falling off a couple of the trees. The wind was actually whipping the
water off puddles on the ground, to make a mist on the ground! It
looked awesome the way the 'mist' was just shooting through across the
ground! Very soon the winds changed to a N'ly direction, gusting at
around 30-40km/h, and within another 5mins, completely died off. By
3:45pm it was a complete drizzle. I went to check the rain guage,
juding by the run off, the puddles and the way the rain came down, I
actually estimated about 30-40mm of rain (of which most would have fell
in 15-20mins) However only 16.9mm of rain was recorded - but throughout
the storm - except for the last bit with the light rain, the rain was
completely horizontal! So 16.9mm wouldn't be accurate.
There was no visible damage on the farm that I could see. However when
coming home this morning, a few kilometres east of the Grandchester
area, there were numerous large branches down, and some fallen trees.
One barn/animal shelter had lost a sheet of corrugated iron off its
roof. From what I saw, the damage was indicative of 90km/h (possibly
even 100km/h gusts) winds!
*******
This brings me on to something else, how many other storms like this
occur without any warnings? I didn't report the storm, because apart
from the rainfall, according to the BoM it wasn't severe. But as the
storm moved on a little, it was. Perhaps the BoM should have storm
spotters report "near severe thunderstorms" so they can issue a
precautionary advice for people downwind of the storm. Because if what
I saw yesterday, was any indication of what normally goes bye without
notice, then they're going to be in big shock one day!
Anthony from Brisbane (reporting from Hiddenvale)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
049
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:07:39 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Australian Weather Mailing List [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: One Extra Note on the Lockyer Valley Storms
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Just one extra thing - towards the end of the storm, the pressure fell
so quickly, all of our ears were popping!
Anthony
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
050
X-Originating-Ip: [203.25.186.110]
From: "Kevin Phyland" [kjphyland at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Bureau responsibility
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:32:27 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi every1,
Well, what is the world coming to!
Blaming the BOM for bad weather is not unlike blaming doctors that lose
their patients.
I've stayed out of this one for a while but geez!
A 25 year event (essentially quite hard to predict - not just the onset
but the development) is hardly the fault of the Bureau.
Yes, the dissemination of information may well have been a tad slow, but
to err on the side of caution is hardly the exclusive prerogative of
weather bureaus.
Having sailed a bit myself (in younger years) I know that most yachties
keep up with, and are generally well aware of, the upcoming weather.
Yes, they could have (and in hindsight, probably should have) postponed
the race by a day (as I believe, the Melbourne to Hobart did).
However, there were many very seasoned sailors in the S-H race and all
would have been aware of the possibilities (particularly veteran racers)
and prepared accordingly.
The more vexing question of land storms remains.
This is an area where warnings should be much more up-to-date, however,
during holiday periods, the general public is just as likely to say that
the BOM is scare-mongering.
I believe that the Bureau is probably in a no-win situation. If they
don't issue, say, a severe storm warning and one occurs, they cop the
flak from the general public - if they do issue one and nothing happens,
they cop the flak from traders and other people who rely on holiday
income for their livelihood.
I have no answers, but I think blaming the BOM is a bit easy.
Yours,
Kevin from Wycheproof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
051
From: "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Blue Mountains Weather and Happy New Year
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:52:33 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Everyone,
The weather here is overcast and drizzly with a temperature of about 22.
Hopefully this weekend we will get some storms which are way overdue.
I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year and hope that 1999 brings
plenty of interesting weather.
Matthew Piper
P.S. Im still here Paul M. just not much to talk about lately due to the
lack of storms here. Also I hope to see as many people as possible at the
meeting on the 9th January.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
052
From: "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: ASWA Motto
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:00:31 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Everyone,
I was thinking about a possible motto for ASWA and thought that the
following might be appropriate.
"video vidi visum" which means to see, observe, understand, comprehend.
Any comments or other suggestions would be appreciated.
Matthew Piper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
053
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:04:07 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au]
To: Australian Weather Mailing List [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Pressure Drop with Storm..
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Anthony,
I noticed the same phenomenon some years ago here in Sydney. I
think it may have been November 1994 but I am not exactly sure. I
remember watching the storm front approach. As it was nearly overhead,
the pressure dropped so suddenly that my ears popped - like ascending in
an aircraft! Then a gale force wind came whistling through for about 30
seconds but there was no significant damage.
Apparently a couple of buildings in Chatswood had a few of their
windows shatter - this was attributed to the sudden pressure drop.
- Paul.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
paul at marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au
----------------------------
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998, Anthony Cornelius wrote:
> Just one extra thing - towards the end of the storm, the pressure fell
> so quickly, all of our ears were popping!
>
> Anthony
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
054
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com, aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: "Nandina Morris" [nandina at alphalink.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA Motto
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 98 17:37:29 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id SAA06923
Nandina from Mulgrave
Matthew, Hello and Happy New Year,
I like your motto suggestion very much. Just one comment - is there perhaps
another step - i.e. to act, or alert, or broadcast, warn, when appropriate?
What do others think?
Cheers,
Nandina
nandina at alphalink.com.au
----------
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I was thinking about a possible motto for ASWA and thought that the following
> might be appropriate.
>
> "video vidi visum" which means to see, observe, understand, comprehend.
>
> Any comments or other suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> Matthew Piper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
055
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 17:58:25 +1000
From: Ross Portas [rportas at mindless.com]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA Motto
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Matthew,
I think that sums it up very nicely. Consider it seconded.
Cheers,
Ross.
Matthew Piper wrote:
> Hi Everyone, I was thinking about a possible motto for ASWA and
> thought that the following might be appropriate. "video vidi visum"
> which means to see, observe, understand, comprehend. Any comments or
> other suggestions would be appreciated. Matthew Piper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
056
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 19:55:58 +1100
From: Ben Quinn [bodie at corplink.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Brisbane rain
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hey Ben from brisbane here
In reply to Anthony's message earlier, I also chased some realy weak
storms to brisbane's west late yesterday afternoon, but they weren't
realy much at all .. very high based with a few rumbles of thunder.
There was a fair amount of rain/showers around yesterday afternoon so
it made it impossible to see the storms
cyclone was talking about :(
On another note, i woke up at 5am thismorning to a beautiful sound ..
the sound of torrential rain! I got 23mm in just under 10 minutes from
the first shower, and a further 15mm in around the same time in a second
shower soon after (some great pictures of the gusters on both of them
*I hope*) .. all up i recieved 55mm throughout the day. Not bad for
coastal showers realy :)
In brisbane at the moment we have 26.5C 64% Humidity and light rain
falling in Redcliffe (north brisbane)
Happy New Year everyone!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
057
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:25:00 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Brisbane rain
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all,
Again..."weak"? :) If you call 60-70km/h winds, with possible winds
between 90-100km/h weak, I'd hate to see your definition of strong! :)
Although I have heard they originally were quite strong, but weakened
rather quickly as they moved on. (which was probably when you got them)
Anthony
Ben Quinn wrote:
>
> Hey Ben from brisbane here
>
> In reply to Anthony's message earlier, I also chased some realy weak storms to brisbane's west late yesterday afternoon, but they weren't realy much at all ..
> very high based with a few rumbles of thunder. There was a fair amount of rain/showers around yesterday afternoon so it made it impossible to see the storms
> cyclone was talking about :(
>
> On another note, i woke up at 5am thismorning to a beautiful sound .. the sound of torrential rain! I got 23mm in just under 10 minutes from the first
> shower, and a further 15mm in around the same time in a second shower soon after (some great pictures of the gusters on both of them *I hope*) .. all up i
> recieved 55mm throughout the day. Not bad for coastal showers realy :)
>
> In brisbane at the moment we have 26.5C 64% Humidity and light rain falling in Redcliffe (north brisbane)
>
> Happy New Year everyone!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
058
From: "John Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Media & Weather
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:32:52 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Helloooooooo.....
I was going thru my email today (31/12), & I agree 100% with Paul about the
media & BoM not giving warnings about the storm that came thru Yamba,
Evan's Head & points North.
SURELY there was SOMEONE in the BoM looking at the radar when the storm
changed direction & headed north. Even if we had 5mins warning it would have
been better than what we got(! at #$&%$ nothing!!!!!!!!)
I think the BoM & the media should pull their collactive fingers OUT of
their backsides & get together to try & give warnings when severe storms
are around & which way they are heading.
That's my 2bob's worth, if anyone thinks I'm wrong, LET ME KNOW!!!!!
On another note, thanx to Michael for taking me out on the chase
yesterday.....it was good to get some pointers on what to look for in storms
(but I still think he scared them off!!!!!!!!!!).
I'm linked up with ICQ so if anyone wants to talk online when I'm on, my
ICQ no. is 25440353.
O.K, I' ve goota go, it's to see some one has bought up the problems about
the media etc. about storm warnings.
John from Ballina
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
059
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:19:06 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham [pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au]
To: Aussie Weather [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Naming People...
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi everyone,
There are quite a few subscribers to this list now and quite a few
of us have the same name. To avoid confusion, could we please write a
surname initial when referring to somebody else on the list? Eg. Michael
Bath would be Michael B while Michael Thompson, Michael T.
Thanks.
Paul G.
----------------------------
Paul Graham
paul at marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au
----------------------------
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