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Storm News
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Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: 2nd February 1999 |
From Subject
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001 "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au] Severe T'Storm in Dalby...ABC report
002 "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au] QLD ASWA Meeting
003 "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au] Qld ASWA meeting
004 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Re:NW Slopes splitting supercell
005 "Nandina Morris" [nandina at alphalink.com.au] ASWA first meeting in WA gets 8 people along!
006 "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au] Anyone remember?
007 "John Roenfeldt" [wa_tornado at hotmail.com] Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
008 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au] Another logo
009 Michael Bath [mbath at ozemail.com.au] NW Slopes splitting supercell pics
010 disarm at braenet.com.au Pics from the 30/1/98 chase to NW Slopes
011 disarm at braenet.com.au pics
012 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] January 1999 likely to be hottest on record for
013 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
014 David Croan [bustchase at yahoo.com] Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
015 steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au] bad news
016 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] tropical cyclones
017 "bonzo" [bonzo at mpx.com.au] tropical cyclones
018 Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au Another logo
019 steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au] weekend lightning photos
020 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Another logo
021 Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au Another logo - just my 5c worth
022 Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au weekend lightning photos
023 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Another logo - just my 5c worth
024 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Report on the feasibility of future
025 Michael_Bath at amp.com.au lightning photo tips
026 "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au] Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
027 Michael Scollay [michael.scollay at telstra.com. Report on the feasibility of futurechasing...
028 "Kevin Phyland" [kjphyland at hotmail.com] Sc chasing - dangers!!
029 "John Roenfeldt" [wa_tornado at hotmail.com] Sc chasing - dangers!!
030 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au] Storm Chasing / Contact Details / Hire Cars / Victorian Sc C
031 Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au] Sc chasing - dangers!!
032 Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au] January 1999 likely to be hottest on record for
033 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Storm Chasing / Contact Details / Hire
034 Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au] NSW observations
035 Michael Bath [mbath at ozemail.com.au] NSW observations
036 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au] NSW observations
037 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Another logo - just my 5c worth
038 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Sc chasing - dangers!!
039 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Sc chasing - dangers!!
040 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Sc chasing - dangers!!
041 Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au] NSW observations
042 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
043 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Storm Chasing / Contact Details / Hire
044 Greg Spencer [hawk at aisnet.net.au] live radar
045 Michael Scollay [michael.scollay at telstra.com. Supercells in WA
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001
From: "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Severe T'Storm in Dalby...ABC report
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:16:50 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all, this is James C
An ABC report:
Buildings have been left without roofs and hundreds of houses are without
power after fierce storms battered southern Queensland during the weekend.
Dalby was hardest hit when a line of storms moved across the Darling Downs
late yesterday afternoon.
The local SES crew was activated after strong winds tore through the town,
bringing down power-lines and trees, and un-roofing several properties,
including the local primary school.
Almost 200 millimetres of rain fell throughout the evening, closing some
local roads.
Meanwhile, residents of Hebel, near the New South Wales border, are still
cleaning up after Saturday night's storms which damaged every building in
the town.
The town has been without power for more than 40 hours, and South-West
Power's Bruce Chalmers says there is no sign of the blackout ending soon.
"It's regrettable we can't give you a timeframe, but we haven't been able to
locate the problem yet, undoubtedly if need be we'll put the aeroplane up
again today to try and locate where the problem is," he said.
Premier Peter Beattie intends visiting the damaged areas after State
Cabinet's Barcaldine meeting today."
>Hi all,
>
>Just watching the news, apparently Dalby received a 'wild electrical
>storm' near 11pm that brought down powerlines and trees. Also, over the
>week end, there have been widespread reports of crop and structual
>damage to buildings throughout SE QLD. Only one area was warned for on
>one occassion though (wide bay Burnett on Saturday)
>
>It's a pity Dalby got hit so late, on yesterday's chase we were actually
>out at Dalby with a small shower that only gave very infrequent static
>on radio...as we could have reported it and a warning would have been
>issued.
>
>Again...no warnings....
>
>Frustrated Anthony from Brisbane
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002
From: "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: QLD ASWA Meeting
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:35:44 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
G'day Anthony
I've thought long and hard about it, and yeah I guess I can go to the next
meeting! I'll show the limited footage I did yesterday and might even get a
chance to show some other ones.
See you there
Regards
James C
>Hi all,
>
>The next QLD ASWA meeting will be held on Saturday the 20th of Febuary,
>the venue is TBA, but it will be held in the Brisbane suburbs (most
>likely at my house again) at 10am.
>
>The main agenda will be discussing some of the stratergies that we wish
>to implement in QLD ASWA, if you have any pictures or video footage that
>you would like to bring, you are more then welcome!
>
>Please RSVP or put in your apologies by emailing me on
>cyclone at stealth.com.au or contact me by phone on (07) 3390 4812.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Anthony Cornelius
>QLD ASWA Rep.
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003
From: "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Qld ASWA meeting
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:39:10 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Oops, meant to send that personally...doesn't matter
------------------------------------------------------
James Chambers
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html
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004
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 01:01:20 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Re:NW Slopes splitting supercell
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
My God...you Sydney siders have gone delirious from lack of storms!!! :)
Sorry...a bit of rubbish I know...delete this one!
Anthony
Jimmy Deguara wrote:
>
> Hi Michael and friends,
>
> I am busy but couldn't resist this one.
>
> We would easily be able to chase stratocu and for once you couldn't wait
> for the SE change to clear any chance for convection. Those bloody storms.
> Clear off will you! Oh here come the change. Yehhhhhhh
>
> Jimmy Deguara
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005
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: "Nandina Morris" [nandina at alphalink.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: ASWA first meeting in WA gets 8 people along!
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 99 07:12:53 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id HAA29320
Good Morning Ira,
Just read the minutes of the WA meeting and it sounds as if it was a most
successful gathering. I had a thought which I felt I should pass on to you
re the education of the GP about severe weather events. We have a series
'fire preparedness' adverts on TV in Vic (probly other states too) that
focus on what to do and what not to do, how to prepare homes etc for the
'fire season'. This type of 'lead in' might well work for severe weather,
and avoid the 'direct hit' which I agree is likely to panic many people.
The next question in how many people take any notice of it? I can't answer
that one. Anyway - that's my thought, for what it's worth
.Cheers,
Nandina
nandina at alphalink.com.au
----------
> MINUTES
>
> Australian Severe Weather Assoc. Western Australia Sub Branch
>
> Held at Ira Fehlberg's House in South Perth, Perth
>
> 30th January 1999 8.00 P.M.
>
> 1. Present: Ira Fehlberg, Mike Fewings, Jacob Aufdemkampe, Debby, Greg
> Spencer, Jason, Keith
>
> 2. Apologies: Radek Doleki, Anne ?, John Roenfeldt, Nathan ?
>
> 3. Minutes of Previous Meeting
> Accepted Seconded
>
> Business Arising From N/A
>
> 4. Reports
>
>
> 5. General Business
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006
From: "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Anyone remember?
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:20:27 +1000
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Hi all listen up!
I just got an email from Gerrie Byrne, who does research for Granada
Television, who has made many famous documentaries. The "Savage Earth"
series including "Savage Skies" was one of them. Here is part of her email
to me:
The theme of the series is natural hazards around the world, and we use
testimony from eyewitnesses with an explanation from scientific experts. The
emphasis is very much on popular science and education, while being aimed at
prime time audiences.
Well, Granada TV is planning to do a documentary on severe weather in
Australia, and her attention was drawn to the Brisbane 1985 hailstorm which
at the time was the most damaging ever in Australia (now passed by the 2
Sydney supercells in early 1990's). She wants to know if anyone remembers
that Brisbane storm and if anyone has an experience to tell. It would be
part of the documentary.
Please email me, and not the aussie-wx list if you can help her.
Regards
James Chambers: jamestorm at ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html
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007
X-Originating-Ip: [193.113.139.190]
From: "John Roenfeldt" [wa_tornado at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:00:46 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>Hi everyone.
>
>Jimmy here. I thought I would start a debate or two
[BIG snip]
>Local chases are ok with our own vehicles but long chases...???
A good topic for discussion Jimmy.
Here are my thoughts,
Firstly (and most importantly for ASWA)
ASWA as an organisation should NOT endorse storm chasing and should have
it in writing on any membership form. If someone gets hurt chasing,
then there are heaps of legal issues involved that we do not want
affecting ASWA.
Anyone chasing should be responsible for their own risks.
Secondly,
If you own a car and wish to take other people on a chase, you, as the
owner of the vehicle, should take on the risks involved.
I do not wish to alienate people who do not have the money, or access to
a vehicle to chase, by discouraging vehicle owners from taking other
chasers with them, but can you imagine the potential for disputes?
Fair enough in getting chasers to help out with fuel and oil, etc, but
you cannot ask other chasers to be responsible for your vehicle. If you
are unwilling to take on that responsibility, then you should be
chasing alone.
Vehicle owners also need to bear in mind that there are great benefits
in taking other chasers with you. You can concentrate on the road
whilst others can guide and observe. This is safer, and more exciting I
might add, than doing it all by yourself.
When it gets down to it, a lot of us would be out there chasing anyway,
so why not have some company?
What do the rest of you think?
John Roenfeldt
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008
From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Another logo
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:55 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Another submission for the ASWA logo has appeared for your perusal. No,
creativity isn't my strong point - it was sent to me by another Victorian.
Please let us know your thoughts.
It can be found at
http://australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/temp/logo1a.jpg
Thanks to Jimmy & Michael once more for the time & trouble they have taken
in giving this a home.
Jane
Bayswater
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009
X-Sender: mbath at ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:36:22 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath [mbath at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aussie-weather: NW Slopes splitting supercell pics
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
At 22:21 01/02/1999 +1100, you wrote:
>PPS>Michael the pics dont do that lowering justice do they, things always
>seem better in real life, although the pics are still great and a momento
>of the chase.
Unfortunately my regular photo shop has a new machine and I am less than
impressed with recent processing there. I will get these redone but I
wanted everyone to see something quickly. Looks like I will have to move to
a new photo processing shop. The curse of the weather photographer -
automatic processing settings at photo shops!!! arrgghhhhh! Even when *they
know* you want the contrast on the clouds (to which exposure has been set),
these machines stuff up because of the 1/4 or 1/3 of the frame with land in
the foreground.
Michael
*==========================================================*
Michael Bath Oakhurst, Sydney mbath at ozemail.com.au
Australian Severe Weather
http://australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
*==========================================================*
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010
From: disarm at braenet.com.au
X-Sender: disarm at braenet.com.au (Unverified)
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Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:54:08 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Pics from the 30/1/98 chase to NW Slopes
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
well everyone here are the best ones i have from the chase up to around
sunset that evening.
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase2.jpg
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase3.jpg
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase4.jpg
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase5.jpg
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase6.jpg
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase7.jpg
http://www.braenet.com.au/~disarm/chase8.jpg
cheers
Matt Smith
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011
From: disarm at braenet.com.au
X-Sender: disarm at braenet.com.au (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:59:24 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: pics
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sorry, all the photo's are in no particular order at the moment, i have got
to bolt to work now.. cya's
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012
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: January 1999 likely to be hottest on record for
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:31:02 +1100 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
> I wonder how many greenhouse scientists use rounded up data to justify their
> theories...!
>
None intentionally. This does, however, raise an interesting problem.
There is an unexplained jump in the Australian mean maximum temperature
after the removal of the ENSO signal in about 1972-73. Naturally such
a sharp jump led us to look for possible non-climatic causes,
especially as this was around the time of (a) the widespread
introduction of daylight saving and (b) the conversion to the metric
system. Neither of these look to have had much impact as it turns out.
One idea we were exploring was that observers might have been rounding
down to the nearest degree F (they were supposed to report to the
nearest 0.1 F, but few did), but even if every station did this at
every observation (a highly improbable scenario) the expected bias
would only be 0.45 F (= 0.25 C).
The issue with the January 1999 observations is a different one.
The code for the transmission of synoptic measurements only allows for
whole numbers of degrees for maximum and minimum temperatures, so
at stations which transmit their observations by that means (manual
stations with no electronic field book installed yet), they send
whole degrees in real-time and the observation to the nearest 0.1
degree comes in when the written field book is sent to the National
Climate Centre, normally 3-6 weeks later. The rounding is supposed
to be to the nearest degree (NOT down or up), with .5 rounded to the
nearest odd number (e.g. 30.5 and 31.5 would both be reported as 31),
so there should be no systematic bias arising from rounding - in the
long term roundings up and down should balance, although there could
be deviations in individual months - for an Australia-wide average
this is unlikely to be more than a few hundredths of a degree.
Blair Trewin
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013
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:36:41 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy and all - you have certainly raised some very important issues
and points here. I'll now put forth my view... (I'll snip some areas
out)
>
> Now that we are chasing farther afield, it has come time to bring up the
> topic of "car hiring". As has been mentioned, the Moree Gunnedah chase was
> a success but had a few pitfalls which concerned me. They were the following:
>
> - Matthew Piper nor David Croan could not come on the chase as there was no
> room for five in the car. This meant that available chasers were not able
> to enjoy the spectacle. David Croan had his car needing repairs. It also
> means that those that have or cannot afford at this stage to maintain a
> vehicle provides then a chance to chase if they can afford the odd chase.
> (Cars in NSW attract very expensive registration and insurance costs nore
> than any other part of the country). This certainly means that another car
> is out of the question just for chasing.
I believe that hiring a car on long chases is a good idea - I'm not
entirely sure on how the process works with damage to cars, but I was
under the impression that you lose your deposit, and depending on the
damage, you pay accodingly (but not the entire cost.) This would
certainly be a good idea if some one was worried about their car getting
damaged by hail.
> - I myself drove an incredible distance (1300km which I am not used to) in
> two days. In the case of an earlier storm chase, David Croan drove 70-800km
> in one day. This is one aspect which has changed since my early days
> chasing. Driving for such a distance requires regular stops at least every
> two hours to be comfortable and safe. I found that the last stretch which
> was the notiorious Putty Road was very tiring and another experienced
> driver could have helped. This obviously was possible but I think a hired
> car would cause less hassles.
This is another good point, there should always be more then one driver
in the car (preferably experienced) so that people can alternate driving
'shifts.' As one can get very tired while driving for long distances.
> - If there had to be an accident, car damage or any other misadventure with
> the car, who pays for the cost? Obviously the owner of the vehicle. Please
> do not misinterpret this as being "stingy" as some of the costs can amount
> to hundreds or sometimes thousands of dollars. Nobody looks at this until
> it happens and then it is too late. I would rather bring it in the open for
> discussion now rather than when an incident happens.
> - There are legalaties of which I will not venture into as I am not
> absolutely sure but with the current society I can guess can cause problems
> for indivuals and/or ASWA.
I believe that this was an issue brought up in the WA ASWA meeting, in
the membership form, there should be a declaration where if you
participate in any storm chasing activities, or a storm chase organised
by ASWA that you do so entirely on your own risk.
This brings me to another point with storm chasing, anyone who storm
chases should be well aware of the dangers. There are many ways to get
injured, or God forbid worse in storm chasing...these include car
accidents, struck by lightning, struck by flying/falling debris, getting
caught in flash flood waters, getting hit by large hail (yes a large
hail stone can seriously injure you) and yes, even a tornado. People
who storm chase should always keep these dangers in mind, (now I'm not
trying to shoot anyone down here, so don't take this the wrong way) but
unless you really know what to look for in a t'storm for
severity/intensity/strength etc then you shouldn't be chasing as you
could lead yourself into a very dangerous situation. This is going to
sound rather bizzare but thunderstorms deserve and require a great deal
of respect, to try and put this in perspective, you would never go into
a resting lions cage inexperienced and thinking you'll be fine - is it
sleeping? Is it partly awake? Is it actually alert still? Just like
you should never chase a thunderstorm inexperienced - is it severe? Is
it weakening? Is it only a 'normal' thunderstorm but strengthening?
Even an experienced lion trainer can get caught out as well...just like
an experienced storm chaser. Now...I know that I am by no means an
experienced storm chaser (heck I chased my first storm just over a week
ago!) but I do believe I can identify the structures of potential
severity etc quite well and I believe that's what other people should
also be aware of.
> I think, and this will become apparent when ASWA begins to take shape, that
> membership will have to reflect each individual's background.. What I mean
> is we need to know details of other's next of kin for instance and in the
> case of under or around the age of 18 years, full approval of parents or
> persons in charge. THEY MUST have full knowledge of what they are doing and
> where they are going including some form of contact details. Storm chasing
> is quite serious and can obviously involve vasrious forms of hazards.
> Perhaps direct reassurance of a more senior member from ASWA can help fully
> explain the situation. If this means one cannot chase, then SO BE IT.
Understandably Jimmy, I agree and disagree with this. I don't believe
it is so much the age, but the maturity of the person in storm chasing.
As long as they have respect and don't think that storm chasing is 'the
cool thing to do' or is a 'Twister storm chaser' (a person who thought
chasing would be a great thing to do because he/she saw Twister) then in
my opinion, that is what really matters. I do agree to an extent with
the under 18 rule and storm chasing with ASWA.
Well - that's my 2c worth,
Anthony Cornelius
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
014
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:46:36 -0800 (PST)
From: David Croan [bustchase at yahoo.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy, and everyone,
I think you raise some really good points.
This aspect of chasing is something I have thought of for a while (I
should point out that everyone who has chased with me in my car has
more than covered their share of expenses such as fuel costs and I
really appreciate that). In the Sydney area, we now have a fairly big
group of regular chasers who know each other and chase together - so
it is not an issue about chasing alone or with people, as I think we
all agree the latter is infinitely better. It think it is just a
safeguard against foreseen problems that might arise later. I realise
that some people are happy to drive wherever, whenever while some of
us, for a whole multitude of reasons, aren't. In the past it hasn't
been as much an issue with chases close to home. This season, however,
has been more a year of storm chaser/chasing exploration, partly due
to poor conditions locally here in Sydney. Out of all this we will
soon find a general way in which things work best. I think car hire is
a great option to trial for the long chases and one which I'm sure
will be on the agenda of the NSW ASWA meeting.
I guess it is up to the different groups of chasers to work out what
they feel most comfortable with doing.
The storm 'chasing' aspect of ASWA is a difficult one and really can't
be avoided - Sure, the society may not 'offically' endorse storm
chasing but the means by which enjoy the reason for the society's
existence is pretty hard to deny. We could call ourselves mobile storm
spotters, but lets face it, if ever for some reason it became a big
issue, people are always going to associate us with what they saw on
Twister - I suppose thats where our efforts in developing community
awareness as well as the pure science aspect will be most important.
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> Jimmy here. I thought I would start a debate or two. This topic has
itched
> me for some time and is an important one to discuss. Please do not
> misinterpret the message in any way. It is more a general reminder
of how
> things seem to be moving in ASWA and was prompted by many factors of
past
> chases. Your POSTIVE input would be very much appreciated. Remember,
some
> or all of the issues discussed may not be appropriate in some areas
or
> regions.
>
> As we all know and whether we like or not, the development of ASWA had
> changed the way chasers plan chases and take part in chases. We are
in a
> position like never before to make predictions and chase storms
farther
> afield. I think good examples of this is the successful operation in
> Victoria on the 28th January and on the 30th January in NNSW. The
> communication od weather resources to chasers in the field has been
> excellent and I thank those involved anmd encourage others to
participate
> wherever possible.
>
> Now that we are chasing farther afield, it has come time to bring up
the
> topic of "car hiring". As has been mentioned, the Moree Gunnedah
chase was
> a success but had a few pitfalls which concerned me. They were the
following:
>
> - Matthew Piper nor David Croan could not come on the chase as there
was no
> room for five in the car. This meant that available chasers were not
able
> to enjoy the spectacle. David Croan had his car needing repairs. It
also
> means that those that have or cannot afford at this stage to
maintain a
> vehicle provides then a chance to chase if they can afford the odd
chase.
> (Cars in NSW attract very expensive registration and insurance costs
nore
> than any other part of the country). This certainly means that
another car
> is out of the question just for chasing.
> - I myself drove an incredible distance (1300km which I am not used
to) in
> two days. In the case of an earlier storm chase, David Croan drove
70-800km
> in one day. This is one aspect which has changed since my early days
> chasing. Driving for such a distance requires regular stops at least
every
> two hours to be comfortable and safe. I found that the last stretch
which
> was the notiorious Putty Road was very tiring and another experienced
> driver could have helped. This obviously was possible but I think a
hired
> car would cause less hassles.
> - If there had to be an accident, car damage or any other
misadventure with
> the car, who pays for the cost? Obviously the owner of the vehicle.
Please
> do not misinterpret this as being "stingy" as some of the costs can
amount
> to hundreds or sometimes thousands of dollars. Nobody looks at this
until
> it happens and then it is too late. I would rather bring it in the
open for
> discussion now rather than when an incident happens.
> - There are legalaties of which I will not venture into as I am not
> absolutely sure but with the current society I can guess can cause
problems
> for indivuals and/or ASWA.
>
> As you can see, these are the main concerns I can raise at this
point but
> there may be more. The bottom line is that to alleviate at least
some of
> the hassles and reponsibilities, I think that some thoughts should
be to
> investiagte "car hiring" as a possibility. Local chases are ok with
our own
> vehicles but long chases...???
>
>
> Other points in storm chasing.
>
> I think, and this will become apparent when ASWA begins to take
shape, that
> membership will have to reflect each individual's background.. What
I mean
> is we need to know details of other's next of kin for instance and
in the
> case of under or around the age of 18 years, full approval of
parents or
> persons in charge. THEY MUST have full knowledge of what they are
doing and
> where they are going including some form of contact details. Storm
chasing
> is quite serious and can obviously involve vasrious forms of hazards.
> Perhaps direct reassurance of a more senior member from ASWA can
help fully
> explain the situation. If this means one cannot chase, then SO BE IT.
>
> This is all I can think of at this stage.
>
> So please discuss this seriously and offer positive feedback. Please
do not
> flood the e-mail list with tonnes of short e-mails wherever possible
but
> think carefully and offer a well thought out longer e-mail or two.
If you
> think "car hiring" is good for certain situations, then we should
> investigate it. If not, do you have other suggstions I haven't thought
> about. Catching a plane to the target area and hring from there can
save
> time but costs $$$$$. Perhaps a contact will help in this idea.
However, as
> Michael Bath says and I agree, the change in scenery is always and
> interesting part of storm chases.
>
> Jimmy Deguara
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
015
X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:52:32 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au]
Subject: aussie-weather: bad news
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
hey all,
last night, my entire inbox, every email i have ever been sent was deleted
last night mysteriously!:( prolly something to do with icq 99!! happened to
anyone else?? boring day, weather wise here - 1016, 59%, 27.5C
steve from gold coast
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
016
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 11:37:20 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: tropical cyclones
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Rob and welcome to the Aussie-weather mailing list!
If you have any questions about weather just ask! I think there are a
lot of people who are in the same boat as you, so don't worry about
that! Where abouts in the tropics are you?
Just one thing...and that's if you could just check the date on your
computer to make sure it's current, as it the message said it was sent
in July of 98...makes it easier to sort the messages out :)
Thanks and welcome!
Anthony Cornelius
bonzo wrote:
>
> hi everybody my name is rob and i am new to all this internet stuff so please be patient with me.
> i am not an expert on the weather and i,m not from the weather bureau, i just happen to be crazy about it, especially living here up in the tropics.
> well its the beginning of feb and we have,nt seen any cyclonic activity as yet, the coral sea is very quiet, maybe it is luring us into a false sense of security.
> the experts were saying we were going to have one of the most active seasons for along time.
> i guess only time will tell, well thats all from me,bye for now.
> bonzo at mpx.com.au
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
017
To: "weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: "bonzo" [bonzo at mpx.com.au]
Subject: aussie-weather: tropical cyclones
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 98 02:08:07 PDT
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id MAA17930
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
X-UIDL: dfbe1d978b11ca10e8ff9e771012fee7
hi everybody my name is rob and i am new to all this internet stuff so please be
patient with me.
i am not an expert on the weather and i,m not from the weather bureau, i just
happen to be crazy about it, especially living here up in the tropics.
well its the beginning of feb and we have,nt seen any cyclonic activity as yet,
the coral sea is very quiet, maybe it is luring us into a false sense of security.
the experts were saying we were going to have one of the most active seasons for
along time.
i guess only time will tell, well thats all from me,bye for now.
bonzo at mpx.com.au
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
018
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:50:05 +1030
From: Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Another logo
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
This logo is good! Can the letters be shaped into a map of
Australia, including Tasmania?
Duane
Paracombe, SA
Jane ONeill wrote:
> Another submission for the ASWA logo ... can be found at
> http://australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/temp/logo1a.jpg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
019
X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 12:41:08 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham [bayns at nor.com.au]
Subject: aussie-weather: weekend lightning photos
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
hi all,
just got my film back. these few fotos i scanned in were from small
mountain west gold coast. looks alright! just go to
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gany/weather.html
and check out the last 3 pics
steve
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
020
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:50:53 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Another logo
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi All,
I'm just new to this list (having at last found a place
where people as mad as me can hang out :) but I really
feel that we are at a stage where Australian organisations
no longer have to squeeze their letters into maps of Oz.
Instead of a bunch of letters whose meaning is lost on
non-members, why not try and incorporate an icon or two
that represents what this organisation stands for?
(though in my case that would be a soffy raincoat and
empty film canisters)
just my 2c,
Chris Maunder.
At 12:50 2/02/99 +1030, you wrote:
>This logo is good! Can the letters be shaped into a map of
>Australia, including Tasmania?
>
>Duane
>Paracombe, SA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
021
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:01:59 +1030
From: Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Another logo - just my 5c worth
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Agreed! It appears that drafting a logo, that is dynamic,
contemporary, and is symbolic of what ASWA is about,
needs quite a bit more thought in to the design. And the
design needs to be kept uncomplicated like the logo Jane
passed on to us.
Matthew Piper, do you have any ideas or any more logo
designs for us to view? Anyone else?
Also, a big welcome to all of the new list members!
Cheers,
Duane Van Schoonhoven
Paracombe (Adelaide),
South Australia
PS Chris, where did you find the 2c? : )
Chris Maunder wrote:
> Instead of a bunch of letters whose meaning is lost on
> non-members, why not try and incorporate an icon or two
> that represents what this organisation stands for? ...
>
> just my 2c,
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
022
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:49:21 +1030
From: Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: weekend lightning photos
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Steve,
You are a talented weather photographer! Your photos are
remarkable and a delight to look at. What equipment to you
use when taking your photographs?
Any chance of submitting a weekly or monthly "Weather
Photography Tips" to this list? It would give encouragement
to those of us who desire to learn to take photos like these.
Please, think about it.
Also, for all of the other gifted weather photographers on this
list, please, share your knowledge from time to time. It can be
very useful, when posting a URL for a photo, to include some
info about equipment and settings used, anything to help in
taking better quality weather photos. Thanks!
Cheers,
Duane Van Schoonhoven
Paracombe (Adelaide),
South Australia
steve baynham wrote:
>
> ... these few fotos i scanned in were from small
> mountain west gold coast. looks alright! just go to
> http://www.angelfire.com/ok/gany/weather.html
> and check out the last 3 pics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
023
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:45:46 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Another logo - just my 5c worth
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
At 14:01 2/02/99 +1030, you wrote:
>
>PS Chris, where did you find the 2c? : )
oops - still living in the dark ages I guess. :)
Duane's idea about weather tips is a good one. I'm currently using
an old Olympus OM-2 that is just about ready to be put out to pasture.
Conventional wisdom says I should stick to something simple and
unbreakable such as the Olympus OM1/2/4 or the Pentax K1000 etc, but
surely these days there is something a little more advanced that
can take the rough treatment?
Anyone have any suggestions on a replacement that is rugged yet
not too pricey?
Chris.
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
024
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 16:39:58 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of future
chasing...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi there again,
Jimmy here.
I think I was expecting some of the responses but the lack of reponses is
quite a surprise! I take it that some disagree with the idea of car hiring
but it should be discussed at the meeting if people agree. Like John said,
after the fact is too late.
My point is this: I don't think it is fair for a few to bear the brunt of
taking people chasing and taking on the responsibilities. It is NOT the
question of whether you would like to chase alone as that would be boring
and dangerous. You still are chasing with people in hire car! But I can say
one thing, I would certainly like to hitch a ride with someone else. Are
there drivers out there that would like to be the one to do all the
driving! I can say that in some areas, there are some that can't chase if
it were not for the few that offer their cars and unfortunately, if we do
not have more than one car, only 3 can go particularly on longer trips.
I know experienced storm chasers offer their ideas and so on to those new
in the field but I can say something: the reponsibility is enormous and
should be shared amongst other chasers. It is inevitable that chasers who
drive do take the reponsinility. I suppose even if you give another person
a lift, you have their responsibility. But if it is shared, it makes it a
little easier.
If people still disagree with car hiring which has its drawbacks such as
being more expensive, then I don't mind getting a lift with someone else on
the next LONG chase....
In this recent chase, Michael Thompson was going to come along and that
would have made a huge difference. But that is not always possible. I am
only talking about huge chases so please bear this in mind. Chasing within
day trips of Sydney is not a problem.
Thank Jimmy Deguara
Enjoying the debate or lack of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
025
From: Michael_Bath at amp.com.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: AMP at NET
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:56:53 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: lightning photo tips
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Thanks for the suggestion, Duane.
As a start, I offer my Lightning Photography web pages. There are lightning
photography tips and most of the pictures have the camera settings
indicated:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1801/
regards, Michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
026
From: "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:31:56 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy and Everyone,
My thoughts are that hiring a car should definately be an option for long
chases as it would enable more people to go and it would take the burden off
using a particular persons vehicle all the time. Also the idea of frequent
driver changes on a chase is definately a sensible suggestion as it would be
unfair of us to expect the one person to drive huge distances all by
themselves. With regards to the issue of responsibility i am in agreement
that if a person wishs to go storm chasing then it should be totally their
responsibility and the idea of signing a declaration stating this fact
sounds like an excellent idea. I am also in agreement that ASWA not
officially endorse storm chasing as i know the reaction of people when you
mention it to them is "What ? you must be crazy".
Anyway thats my thoughts on some of the issues brought up today.
Matthew Piper
>Hi there again,
>
>Jimmy here.
>
>I think I was expecting some of the responses but the lack of reponses is
>quite a surprise! I take it that some disagree with the idea of car hiring
>but it should be discussed at the meeting if people agree. Like John said,
>after the fact is too late.
>
>My point is this: I don't think it is fair for a few to bear the brunt of
>taking people chasing and taking on the responsibilities. It is NOT the
>question of whether you would like to chase alone as that would be boring
>and dangerous. You still are chasing with people in hire car! But I can say
>one thing, I would certainly like to hitch a ride with someone else. Are
>there drivers out there that would like to be the one to do all the
>driving! I can say that in some areas, there are some that can't chase if
>it were not for the few that offer their cars and unfortunately, if we do
>not have more than one car, only 3 can go particularly on longer trips.
>
>I know experienced storm chasers offer their ideas and so on to those new
>in the field but I can say something: the reponsibility is enormous and
>should be shared amongst other chasers. It is inevitable that chasers who
>drive do take the reponsinility. I suppose even if you give another person
>a lift, you have their responsibility. But if it is shared, it makes it a
>little easier.
>
>If people still disagree with car hiring which has its drawbacks such as
>being more expensive, then I don't mind getting a lift with someone else on
>the next LONG chase....
>
>In this recent chase, Michael Thompson was going to come along and that
>would have made a huge difference. But that is not always possible. I am
>only talking about huge chases so please bear this in mind. Chasing within
>day trips of Sydney is not a problem.
>
>Thank Jimmy Deguara
>Enjoying the debate or lack of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
027
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:38:38 +1100
From: Michael Scollay [michael.scollay at telstra.com.au]
Organization: Telstra Strategy & Research
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of futurechasing...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Jimmy Deguara wrote:
>
> Hi there again,
>
> Jimmy here.
>
> I think I was expecting some of the responses but the lack of reponses is
> quite a surprise!
[snip]
OK Jimmy, you've flushed another out. Here's my "reponse"
(response:-);
1) Spread car hire / running costs among participating chasers. Cost
effectiveness of this depends on number of chasers and private cars
that would otherwise be required.
2) Get a sponsor to fund an ASWA storm chase vehicle:-)
3) ASWA is not proposed to fund storm chases at this stage.
I can appreciate the effort involved in driving long distances
resulting in minimal storm returns and I empathise but there is
currently no feasible alternative other than to wait until the storms
come closer to home. There is however, an opportunity of coordinating
an effort from two states toward an area in between, say chase NSW
Northern Tablelands from both Sydney and Brisbane-based chasers.
Michael Scollay mailto:michael.scollay at telstra.com.au
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
028
X-Originating-Ip: [203.25.186.111]
From: "Kevin Phyland" [kjphyland at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Sc chasing - dangers!!
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:46:28 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Michael T.,
Just as there are dangers inherent in chasing supercells I feel it's
only right to point out the dangers of chasing stratocumulus:
* possibility of Vitamin D deficiency with long chases;
* chance of slightly slippery roads with attendant drizzle;
* should your compass break, very little chance of navigating by either
landmarks or stars;
* real uncertainty in which direction to head for the best photos;
* reliability of LI's is woeful - anything from - 3 to +20;
* terminal boredom.
Feel free to add the dangers I have missed!
Safety first!
Kevin from Wycheproof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
029
X-Originating-Ip: [193.113.139.185]
From: "John Roenfeldt" [wa_tornado at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sc chasing - dangers!!
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 00:38:58 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>Just as there are dangers inherent in chasing supercells I feel it's
>only right to point out the dangers of chasing stratocumulus:
>
>* possibility of Vitamin D deficiency with long chases;
>* chance of slightly slippery roads with attendant drizzle;
>* should your compass break, very little chance of navigating by either
>landmarks or stars;
>* real uncertainty in which direction to head for the best photos;
>* reliability of LI's is woeful - anything from - 3 to +20;
>* terminal boredom.
>
>Feel free to add the dangers I have missed!
The dangers are high but the rewards great. One chase we drove 800kms
chasing stratocumulus and ended up in the middle of nowhere, but we saw
a wonderful black beetle crawling through the scrub. Ahhhh, I remember
that chase fondly. :)
John R
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
030
From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Storm Chasing / Contact Details / Hire Cars / Victorian Sc Chase in May
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:13:52 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
Importance: Normal
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Jimmy & all,
These are a few of *my* thoughts on different aspects of storm chasing
(excuse any tangents that may escape) ....
1. The public perception of the term 'Storm Chasers'
We decided as a group that any name which included the term "Storm
Chase(rs)" would not give people an accurate perception about what we as
individuals, and as a group are actually all about.
For this reason, what someone decides to do with their own time is their own
business so long as it doesn't detract from the public image of ASWA -
which I think (correct me if I'm off the track here) is a group of people
interested in severe storms and all of the aspects thereof, the reporting of
'incidents' correctly to the media and the BoM, the research into the
physiology and morphology of storms with the end being an increase in
knowledge of storms and storm formation; with the means being the
interaction of people (ie: us) with severe weather events armed with
cameras, videos and the like.
We may have to drive 500km to find an 'event' but it's because of an
interest that we have, and it's the drive (both the drive and the drive, if
you get my drift) to see and understand more, that gets us there. We still
have to hold ourselves responsible for our behaviour in public so that we
can never be accused of detracting from the 'Objectives of the Association'
of the ASWA.
2. It would be sensible to have a contact name and telephone number for use
in an emergency for each person who is heading out on a 'chase'/ 'into the
field' - we need to look after each other - yes, I agree that more than one
person in a car is a good thing, but sometimes there just isn't the time to
get this happening. The thought did cross my mind while driving around
hilly Victoria near Yea in the pitch black the other night with Andrew
behind me - what happens if something happens? You guys basically knew
where we were headed but if anything *had* happened, what could you or I or
Andrew have done? Who would you have contacted? (especially important for
those of us who live alone!!)
3. Hire cars.
Makes immense sense for planned trips. Also worthwhile to spend a little bit
more to keep the excess in an accident down to $300 or so especially if you
are to travel many kilometres. You get a well maintained, newish and safe
car (get one with cruise control - you'll save a fortune on speeding tickets
while you keep glancing at the sky or getting into a heated discussion about
the local cattle breeding programme). Keep in mind most insurance policies
on hire cars will not pay at all if you are proven to have had an accident
on a dirt road - most seem to have clauses limiting you to bitumen (not
talking about 4WD's here - don't know in that situation). Having shared
driving on long trips is ideal - it is impossible to do all of the following
things at the same time if you are the only one in the car:
a) watch 360 degrees of sky
b) watch the speedo
c) watch for other traffic
d) check direction of your travel and cloud travel using a compass
e) reading a map / street directory
f) ring for a radar report
g) change the radio station
etc etc
oh, and ...... stay awake!!
Excellent idea to hire cars with more than one occupant, but do it as
individuals, not members of ASWA - this keeps the liability away from ASWA
and keeps the responsibility where it should lie - with each of us as
individuals.
BTW, how do the Americans handle this situation?
4. All vehicles going out long distances 'in the field' MUST have
comprehensive insurance.
Please excuse me if I've rambled on and on and on.....
5. Kevin, there should be a 3 week window in May in Victoria for an intense
full-on Sc chase - my backyard or yours???
Jane
Bayswater
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
031
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:27:32 +1100
From: Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sc chasing - dangers!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Not to mention anticyclonic gloom..
And exogenous depression (not meteorological)..
Kevin Phyland wrote:
> Hi Michael T.,
>
> Just as there are dangers inherent in chasing supercells I feel it's
> only right to point out the dangers of chasing stratocumulus:
>
> * possibility of Vitamin D deficiency with long chases;
> * chance of slightly slippery roads with attendant drizzle;
> * should your compass break, very little chance of navigating by either
> landmarks or stars;
> * real uncertainty in which direction to head for the best photos;
> * reliability of LI's is woeful - anything from - 3 to +20;
> * terminal boredom.
>
> Feel free to add the dangers I have missed!
>
> Safety first!
> Kevin from Wycheproof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
032
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:37:05 +1100
From: Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: January 1999 likely to be hottest on record for
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
One of my biggest worries is that there are lies, damned lies
and....statistics,that are used by some people with hidden agendas to push their
cause (it can be anything from the weather to the effect of
trihydroxyanthraquinone on gay female aboriginal cockroaches.)
There is at least one American climatologist (I won't mention the name) who says
that to get people mindful of the need to cut greenhouse emissions they (the
people) need to be subjected to scare tactics....
So I'm sorry but I have some reservations about the intentions of some of these
people...
Blair Trewin wrote:
> >
> > I wonder how many greenhouse scientists use rounded up data to justify their
> > theories...!
> >
> None intentionally. This does, however, raise an interesting problem.
> There is an unexplained jump in the Australian mean maximum temperature
> after the removal of the ENSO signal in about 1972-73. Naturally such
> a sharp jump led us to look for possible non-climatic causes,
> especially as this was around the time of (a) the widespread
> introduction of daylight saving and (b) the conversion to the metric
> system. Neither of these look to have had much impact as it turns out.
> One idea we were exploring was that observers might have been rounding
> down to the nearest degree F (they were supposed to report to the
> nearest 0.1 F, but few did), but even if every station did this at
> every observation (a highly improbable scenario) the expected bias
> would only be 0.45 F (= 0.25 C).
>
> The issue with the January 1999 observations is a different one.
> The code for the transmission of synoptic measurements only allows for
> whole numbers of degrees for maximum and minimum temperatures, so
> at stations which transmit their observations by that means (manual
> stations with no electronic field book installed yet), they send
> whole degrees in real-time and the observation to the nearest 0.1
> degree comes in when the written field book is sent to the National
> Climate Centre, normally 3-6 weeks later. The rounding is supposed
> to be to the nearest degree (NOT down or up), with .5 rounded to the
> nearest odd number (e.g. 30.5 and 31.5 would both be reported as 31),
> so there should be no systematic bias arising from rounding - in the
> long term roundings up and down should balance, although there could
> be deviations in individual months - for an Australia-wide average
> this is unlikely to be more than a few hundredths of a degree.
>
> Blair Trewin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
033
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:59:46 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Storm Chasing / Contact Details / Hire
Cars / Victorian Sc Chase in May
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
At 20:13 2/02/99 +1100, you wrote:
>Jimmy & all,
>
>These are a few of *my* thoughts on different aspects of storm chasing
>(excuse any tangents that may escape) ....
>
>1. The public perception of the term 'Storm Chasers'
>We decided as a group that any name which included the term "Storm
>Chase(rs)" would not give people an accurate perception about what we as
>individuals, and as a group are actually all about.
You may not like the term "chasers", but how many here, when faced with
a highly active supercell and some spare time aren't going to at least
mosey on behind it a little, just to see what happens :)
Chris.
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
034
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:01:11 +1100
From: Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: NSW observations
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Does anyone know where to get the NSW rainfall/weather bulletins? When I
look at the Bureau's website all I get is 'no current edition
available', or the last one that was back in October 1998...
Have they moved it to a 'user pays' site?
(I want to compare the official Seven Hills site with my data..although
it will eventually arrive in 3 months in the Monthly Weather review)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
035
X-Sender: mbath at ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:16:03 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath [mbath at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NSW observations
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Keith,
They are on web here:
http://www.BoM.GOV.AU/weather/nsw/observations.shtml
rainlist, etc.
regards, Michael
At 21:01 2/02/99 +1100, you wrote:
>Does anyone know where to get the NSW rainfall/weather bulletins?
*==========================================================*
Michael Bath Oakhurst, Sydney mbath at ozemail.com.au
Australian Severe Weather
http://australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
*==========================================================*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
036
From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aussie-weather: NSW observations
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:26:50 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
Importance: Normal
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Try this
gopher://gilgamesh.ho.bom.gov.au/00/Australian%20Weather%20Information/New%2
0South%20Wales/New%20South%20Wales%20Observations/prnd%09%09%2B
which is 3 levels down from
gopher://gilgamesh.ho.bom.gov.au/11/Australian%20Weather%20Information
goto NSW / NSW observations / Daily rain Bulletin
Jane
Bayswater
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>[mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Keith Barnett
>Sent: Tuesday, 2 February 1999 9:01
>To: 'aussie-weather at world.std.com'
>Subject: aussie-weather: NSW observations
>
>
>Does anyone know where to get the NSW rainfall/weather bulletins? When I
>look at the Bureau's website all I get is 'no current edition
>available', or the last one that was back in October 1998...
>Have they moved it to a 'user pays' site?
>(I want to compare the official Seven Hills site with my data..although
>it will eventually arrive in 3 months in the Monthly Weather review)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
037
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Another logo - just my 5c worth
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:22:18 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
If your OM-2 is still working I would not be in a hurry to trade it in.
Model film lab processing puts most SLR cameras on an equal footing in terms
of quality, unfortunately this means that model film labs are not up to
scratch ! therefore any advantages in terms of photo quality in a more
modern camera are lost in the processing.
Arguments of Olympus vs Nikon vs Pentax are only valid when you start
professional processing.
I have a Nikon that is close to 20 years old and it works fine, except it
weighs the same as a house brick. Another advantage of older cameras is that
if your battery goes flat, no worries you can manual overide everything. Not
so with many modern cameras.
Michael
>
>Duane's idea about weather tips is a good one. I'm currently using
>an old Olympus OM-2 that is just about ready to be put out to pasture.
>Conventional wisdom says I should stick to something simple and
>unbreakable such as the Olympus OM1/2/4 or the Pentax K1000 etc, but
>surely these days there is something a little more advanced that
>can take the rough treatment?
>
>Anyone have any suggestions on a replacement that is rugged yet
>not too pricey?
>
>Chris.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
038
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sc chasing - dangers!!
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:24:50 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
It sounds like you have been on some of my chases !!
Regards
Michael
>Hi Michael T.,
>
>Just as there are dangers inherent in chasing supercells I feel it's
>only right to point out the dangers of chasing stratocumulus:
>
>* possibility of Vitamin D deficiency with long chases;
>* chance of slightly slippery roads with attendant drizzle;
>* should your compass break, very little chance of navigating by either
>landmarks or stars;
>* real uncertainty in which direction to head for the best photos;
>* reliability of LI's is woeful - anything from - 3 to +20;
>* terminal boredom.
>
>Feel free to add the dangers I have missed!
>
>Safety first!
>Kevin from Wycheproof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
039
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sc chasing - dangers!!
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:26:45 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hey ! your been on some of my chases too..
I tend to go for the wildflower photos when things get really boring.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
>>
>>Just as there are dangers inherent in chasing supercells I feel it's
>>only right to point out the dangers of chasing stratocumulus:
>>
>>* possibility of Vitamin D deficiency with long chases;
>>* chance of slightly slippery roads with attendant drizzle;
>>* should your compass break, very little chance of navigating by either
>>landmarks or stars;
>>* real uncertainty in which direction to head for the best photos;
>>* reliability of LI's is woeful - anything from - 3 to +20;
>>* terminal boredom.
>>
>>Feel free to add the dangers I have missed!
>
>
>The dangers are high but the rewards great. One chase we drove 800kms
>chasing stratocumulus and ended up in the middle of nowhere, but we saw
>a wonderful black beetle crawling through the scrub. Ahhhh, I remember
>that chase fondly. :)
>
>
>John R
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
040
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sc chasing - dangers!!
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:29:47 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
We are getting personal now, I still have fond memories of a stratocumulus
chase in the Illawarra when the baro was pushing 1040, it even drizzled.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
>Not to mention anticyclonic gloom..
>And exogenous depression (not meteorological)..
>
>Kevin Phyland wrote:
>
>> Hi Michael T.,
>>
>> Just as there are dangers inherent in chasing supercells I feel it's
>> only right to point out the dangers of chasing stratocumulus:
>>
>> * possibility of Vitamin D deficiency with long chases;
>> * chance of slightly slippery roads with attendant drizzle;
>> * should your compass break, very little chance of navigating by either
>> landmarks or stars;
>> * real uncertainty in which direction to head for the best photos;
>> * reliability of LI's is woeful - anything from - 3 to +20;
>> * terminal boredom.
>>
>> Feel free to add the dangers I have missed!
>>
>> Safety first!
>> Kevin from Wycheproof.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
041
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:40:52 +1100
From: Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NSW observations
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Keith...
you must be using the Gopher which hasn't been updated for a long
time... go to the Bof M site, NSw, Obs and you'll find the current day's
rainlist
Don White
Keith Barnett wrote:
>
> Does anyone know where to get the NSW rainfall/weather bulletins? When I
> look at the Bureau's website all I get is 'no current edition
> available', or the last one that was back in October 1998...
> Have they moved it to a 'user pays' site?
> (I want to compare the official Seven Hills site with my data..although
> it will eventually arrive in 3 months in the Monthly Weather review)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
042
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Report on the feasibility of future chasing...
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:41:14 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
My thoughts -
We do not have to have a policy as such, if people prefer there own cars
fine, if 3-4 chasers want to hire thats fine as well. Of course this will
come to head when you 2 chases and both want different things.Or perhaps teo
groups of chasers one in hire car, the other in a personal car, naturally
the hire car guys will feel financially worse done by. I don't think you
will ever solve that problem.
Personally I will usually opt for my own car, but thats because its a 4WD
built like a tank, can cross mountains rivers ( as Jimmy witnessed first
hand in the wilds near Barrinton Tops ), and affords a bolt upright seating,
sounds uncomfortable but it ends up less tiring on a long trip and you see
more.
Hire cars are expensive once you move away from a tiny 4 cyc, but I must
admit it's not your car clocking up the thousands of kilometres. Which leads
to another point - hire cars with unlimited KM's will cost more again, more
again for any drivers under 25, or even 30 with some companies.
On longer trips you should rotate drivers, but I would give short shift to
any drivers that went consistently over the speed limit, tailgated or drove
on winding roads too fast. It should be a policy that on any group chases
that the speedlimit is obeyed.
Michael
>- I myself drove an incredible distance (1300km which I am not used to) in
>two days. In the case of an earlier storm chase, David Croan drove 70-800km
>in one day. This is one aspect which has changed since my early days
>chasing. Driving for such a distance requires regular stops at least every
>two hours to be comfortable and safe. I found that the last stretch which
>was the notiorious Putty Road was very tiring and another experienced
>driver could have helped. This obviously was possible but I think a hired
>car would cause less hassles.
>- If there had to be an accident, car damage or any other misadventure with
>the car, who pays for the cost? Obviously the owner of the vehicle. Please
>do not misinterpret this as being "stingy" as some of the costs can amount
>to hundreds or sometimes thousands of dollars. Nobody looks at this until
>it happens and then it is too late. I would rather bring it in the open for
>discussion now rather than when an incident happens.
>- There are legalaties of which I will not venture into as I am not
>absolutely sure but with the current society I can guess can cause problems
>for indivuals and/or ASWA.
>
>As you can see, these are the main concerns I can raise at this point but
>there may be more. The bottom line is that to alleviate at least some of
>the hassles and reponsibilities, I think that some thoughts should be to
>investiagte "car hiring" as a possibility. Local chases are ok with our own
>vehicles but long chases...???
>
>
>Other points in storm chasing.
>
>I think, and this will become apparent when ASWA begins to take shape, that
>membership will have to reflect each individual's background.. What I mean
>is we need to know details of other's next of kin for instance and in the
>case of under or around the age of 18 years, full approval of parents or
>persons in charge. THEY MUST have full knowledge of what they are doing and
>where they are going including some form of contact details. Storm chasing
>is quite serious and can obviously involve vasrious forms of hazards.
>Perhaps direct reassurance of a more senior member from ASWA can help fully
>explain the situation. If this means one cannot chase, then SO BE IT.
>
>This is all I can think of at this stage.
>
>So please discuss this seriously and offer positive feedback. Please do not
>flood the e-mail list with tonnes of short e-mails wherever possible but
>think carefully and offer a well thought out longer e-mail or two. If you
>think "car hiring" is good for certain situations, then we should
>investigate it. If not, do you have other suggstions I haven't thought
>about. Catching a plane to the target area and hring from there can save
>time but costs $$$$$. Perhaps a contact will help in this idea. However, as
>Michael Bath says and I agree, the change in scenery is always and
>interesting part of storm chases.
>
>Jimmy Deguara
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
043
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:00:28 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Storm Chasing / Contact Details / Hire
Cars / Victorian Sc Chase in May
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Jane,
Jimmy here. You have raised some good points. In the US, I have heard many
hiring cars for years to go out on long chases. I know it is more expensive
and that ASWA stays out of it, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.
Please note for those that don't know about car hiring (although I don't
know too much), there are some very important things to research before
doing it.
Jimmy
At 08:13 PM 2/2/99 +1100, you wrote:
>Jimmy & all,
>
>These are a few of *my* thoughts on different aspects of storm chasing
>(excuse any tangents that may escape) ....
>
>1. The public perception of the term 'Storm Chasers'
>We decided as a group that any name which included the term "Storm
>Chase(rs)" would not give people an accurate perception about what we as
>individuals, and as a group are actually all about.
>
>For this reason, what someone decides to do with their own time is their own
>business so long as it doesn't detract from the public image of ASWA -
>which I think (correct me if I'm off the track here) is a group of people
>interested in severe storms and all of the aspects thereof, the reporting of
>'incidents' correctly to the media and the BoM, the research into the
>physiology and morphology of storms with the end being an increase in
>knowledge of storms and storm formation; with the means being the
>interaction of people (ie: us) with severe weather events armed with
>cameras, videos and the like.
>
>We may have to drive 500km to find an 'event' but it's because of an
>interest that we have, and it's the drive (both the drive and the drive, if
>you get my drift) to see and understand more, that gets us there. We still
>have to hold ourselves responsible for our behaviour in public so that we
>can never be accused of detracting from the 'Objectives of the Association'
>of the ASWA.
>
>2. It would be sensible to have a contact name and telephone number for use
>in an emergency for each person who is heading out on a 'chase'/ 'into the
>field' - we need to look after each other - yes, I agree that more than one
>person in a car is a good thing, but sometimes there just isn't the time to
>get this happening. The thought did cross my mind while driving around
>hilly Victoria near Yea in the pitch black the other night with Andrew
>behind me - what happens if something happens? You guys basically knew
>where we were headed but if anything *had* happened, what could you or I or
>Andrew have done? Who would you have contacted? (especially important for
>those of us who live alone!!)
>
>3. Hire cars.
>Makes immense sense for planned trips. Also worthwhile to spend a little bit
>more to keep the excess in an accident down to $300 or so especially if you
>are to travel many kilometres. You get a well maintained, newish and safe
>car (get one with cruise control - you'll save a fortune on speeding tickets
>while you keep glancing at the sky or getting into a heated discussion about
>the local cattle breeding programme). Keep in mind most insurance policies
>on hire cars will not pay at all if you are proven to have had an accident
>on a dirt road - most seem to have clauses limiting you to bitumen (not
>talking about 4WD's here - don't know in that situation). Having shared
>driving on long trips is ideal - it is impossible to do all of the following
>things at the same time if you are the only one in the car:
>a) watch 360 degrees of sky
>b) watch the speedo
>c) watch for other traffic
>d) check direction of your travel and cloud travel using a compass
>e) reading a map / street directory
>f) ring for a radar report
>g) change the radio station
>etc etc
>oh, and ...... stay awake!!
>
>Excellent idea to hire cars with more than one occupant, but do it as
>individuals, not members of ASWA - this keeps the liability away from ASWA
>and keeps the responsibility where it should lie - with each of us as
>individuals.
>
>BTW, how do the Americans handle this situation?
>
>4. All vehicles going out long distances 'in the field' MUST have
>comprehensive insurance.
>
>Please excuse me if I've rambled on and on and on.....
>
>5. Kevin, there should be a 3 week window in May in Victoria for an intense
>full-on Sc chase - my backyard or yours???
>
>
>Jane
>Bayswater
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
044
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 20:06:52 +0800
From: Greg Spencer [hawk at aisnet.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: live radar
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hey bonzo
I know the BoM does have radar service but it costs $600 per year and quite
frankly, harldey any one on the list is willing to pay for it. There are a
few that have access but I dont know who. You could ask around and maybe
someone can send you the radar loops so you can get an idea as to what is
going on when it happens
bonzo wrote:
fellow storm chasers i am wondering if any of you guys know how to get on to
a web site that has real time live radar, i live in cairns and if we get a
cyclone that comes close to the coast it would be good to be able to track
it live, instead of relying on satellite pics that are three hours old.
i,m sure that the met bureau has the technology, i suppose we will have to
pay for it one way or the other.
regards rob.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
045
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:10:37 +1100
From: Michael Scollay [michael.scollay at telstra.com.au]
Organization: Telstra Strategy & Research
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Aussie Weather [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aussie-weather: Supercells in WA
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Take a look at the 199902021102 UTC satpic for supercells in WA from
http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/gmsfull/gmsfull.jpg
Michael Scollay
| Document: 990202.htm
Updated: 12th February, 1999 |
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