From                                           Subject
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001 "Nandina Morris" [nandina at alphalink.com.au]    Brisbane
002 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]           Technical stuff & frustration
003 "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]            Orange weather
004 "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]            Re web graphics
005 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]        Possible February record low at Bathurst
006 "John  Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au]             allina Supercell 18/2
007 "John  Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au]             risbane
008 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]           What is a tornado?
009 Rodney Price [f5vortex at SOUTHWIND.NET]          1998 Tornado Count
010 Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au  Brisbane
011 "Patrick Tobin" [pdtobin at hotmail.com]          More dangerous swells for NSW?
012 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]   More dangerous swells for NSW?
013 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]   Bushfire Smoke

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001

To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: "Nandina Morris" [nandina at alphalink.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Brisbane
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 99 07:16:18 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id IAA22034

Hey Joanne,
Nandina here from Melbourne.

In response to your message, I feel embarrassed after sending what turns out
to be irrelevant, ignorant or just plain stupid stuff.  Then I cover up by
sending a bit of trivia.  But I tell you what - I do get frustrated by some
of the SOOoooo...... technical responses from those who know so much.  This
may be due to the fact that there is no lay-person's language to effectively
explain certain phenomenon, but when I cannot understand what they are saying,
I do get peeved.  Want to learn but can't.  Does anyone else ever feel that
way, or am I the only novice on the list?

Cheers,

Nandina
nandina at alphalink.com.au

----------
> After reading all the other messages much more eduacted list goers
> responded with, I think everyone better disregard my message below.  
> Does anyone else ever get frustrated with their lack of knowledge??!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
002

From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Technical stuff & frustration
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 08:57:06 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
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Nandina,

You are far from being the only novice on the list .  Lots more of us out
here trying to get a handle on a lot of the more technical forecasting and
computer information.

If someone responds with something that is of interest to you but is
technically above your head, you can always ask the author for some
information at a less advanced level. I've learnt huge amounts about
forecasting methods, storm formation & behaviour and computers in the last
couple of months by asking people what may have seemed to them to be silly
questions, but which have helped me to understand. My thanks to all of you
on the aussie weather list who have helped me out with my queries and
increased my knowledge.

My weak points are physics and applied mathematics, and the older I get the
more I have a need to 'understand' rather than just 'accept' - and the more
frustrated I get in not knowing, so I've found everyone on the list very,
very helpful in this regard.

Jane
Bayswater

>-----Original Message-----
>From: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>[mailto:aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com]On Behalf Of Nandina
>Morris
>Sent: Sunday, 21 February 1999 2:16
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aus-wx: Brisbane
>
>
>Hey Joanne,
>Nandina here from Melbourne.
>
>In response to your message, I feel embarrassed after sending what
>turns out to be irrelevant, ignorant or just plain stupid stuff.
>Then I cover up by sending a bit of trivia.  But I tell you what -
>I do get frustrated by some of the SOOoooo...... technical
>responses from those who know so much.  This may be due to the
>fact that there is no lay-person's language to effectively explain
>certain phenomenon, but when I cannot understand what they are
>saying, I do get peeved.  Want to learn but can't.  Does anyone
>else ever feel that way, or am I the only novice on the list?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Nandina
>nandina at alphalink.com.au

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
003

From: "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]
To: "Aussie-weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Orange weather
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:54:52 +1100
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Hi All,
	Very smoggy the last couple of days with the smoke from the bushfire at the
back of Oberon. Another blue sky above all the smoke.

At 09.50am at Orange 17C, 1018, 25%, E/ENE 5-10 Kmh.



 Terry.

mailto:dymprog at mpx.com.au

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
004

From: "Terry Bishop" [dymprog at mpx.com.au]
To: "Aussie-weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Re web graphics
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:56:56 +1100
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Hi All,

	For those people interested in putting graphics on the web try the
following site for good hints and links.


http://www.computers.com/reviews/features/0,173,0-21-1701-6,00.html?st.co.ti
ps_index.goto.tips_web

 Terry.

mailto:dymprog at mpx.com.au

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
005

From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Possible February record low at Bathurst
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:53:17 +1100 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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> 
> blair...
> What data base do you have access to for this type of information? Is it
> available in any way with dates?
> don White
> 
Two useful web pages here:

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages - Climate averages and extremes
for Australia.

http://mullara.met.unimelb.edu.au:8080/home/blair/extremes/extpage.html
- my extreme temperatures page.

The Bureau site has monthly averages and extremes for a wide variety
of sites. My site has the highest/lowest maximum and minimum for each
date, but for a smaller number of sites (about 100). 

One thing to bear in mind is that, by and large, the Bureau database
only contains daily temperature data on computer since 1957 (there are
exceptions) - before that only the monthly means are on computer, with
the daily data only available in manuscript form. (There is a project
just underway at the Bureau to digitise some of this historical data,
but this will take several years to complete). This is why on the
Bureau site, the number of years of record for the mean maximum and
minimum is often a lot more than that for the extremes - the extremes
are taken off the post-1957 data only.

For the most part my page is based on the Bureau data set too, but
there are a few sites for which I digitised the 1921-1956 data myself
as part of a research project I was working on, and Bathurst is one
of them. I've also done somewhat more rigorous quality control on
the data than the Bureau has hitherto done (although my corrections
are gradually finding their way into the Bureau database).

Blair Trewin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
006

From: "John  Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re:aus-wx:Ballina Supercell 18/2
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 17:11:14 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
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Hello People,

I've taken about 17 pic's of this storm,2 when it was down around Yamba the
rest when it was off the coast here at Ballina.
This storm must've built up extremely quick as I was downtown at 1:45-2pm &
there was no sign of a storm.At 3pm I went to pick up my son from school &
down to the S-S/E was this huge mother of a storm.......crisp anvil,
beautiful overshootig top....the works.The first thought on seeing the storm
was here we go again (I thought I had gone back to 18/12/98...very similar
circumstances). I took 2 pic's & went back inside to escape the heat (39c).
At 6:15pm I went outside again to look at the storm again & noticed cloud
from the rear of the storm over land. I then raced to get some more  film &
headed to the river to take some pic's.
When I reached the river I  was treated to a roll cloud coming from the rear
of the storm extending from out at sea to about Alstonville or Wollongbar.
The amazing feature of the roll coud that it was attached by a "corkscrew"
shaped cloud...I've never seen anything like that so I rattled off some
shots of it. There seemed to be a wall cloud with a prong sticking out below
it, but quickly disappeared when the sun came out from behind the roll
cloud.
Another funny thing about the roll cloud is that  as it approached Ballina,
it punched up to 1000-1500m up right above me. I had to crane my head back
to see the top of it. The wind changed direction to the S at 6:28, rain fell
at 6:35 (0.4mm)...no thunder was heard till the roll cloud had passed over
me (only 6 claps though).
I was going to go over to East to see if I  could get  some lightning shots
after the sun had set, but the usual crud you get with Southerlies came up
making life  difficult (again!!!!!!).
Anyway, I'm heading off, getting bloody "typist's cramp" typing this......
See ya's
John

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
007

From: "John  Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re:aus-wx:Brisbane
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:27:46 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
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Hey rals, if i knew you would be coming down this way, i could've met you in
Ballina somewhere & gone over to East to have a look.
If anyone from Brisbane is down this way on a  chase, give me a call on 02
66867192 so we can meet somewhere & go & get some more pic's......I know a
couple of good spots here to take them.
See Ya's
John from Ballina

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
008

From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: What is a tornado?
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:23:42 +1100
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Found this post while reading my previously unread WX-CHASE Digests (Nov -
Feb) while stuck at the office today upgrading the computer network.  It is
relevant to the Australia wide discussions we have had regarding the
incorrect reporting of destructive circular winds etc etc.  The link leads
to a discussion by Charles Doswell which is well worth the read.

Jane
Bayswater

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
009

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:10:35 -0000
From: Rodney Price [f5vortex at SOUTHWIND.NET]
Subject: 1998 Tornado Count
Konon Boris  wrote:
>
> With the below tornado stats updated today, the 1998 tornado count is now
1481, which I believe sets a new record for number of tornadoes in a year in
the U.S. The previous record I think was 1297 set in 1992.
>
> Also, the 400 tornadoes in June is a new record for any month. The
> previous record was 399 set in June 1992. Please correct me if I am
wrong with these numbers.
Greg Stumpf replied:
>Yes, one correction...
>These are the number of *reported* tornadoes. We will most likely >see
tornado report records being broken more frequently as NWS >verification
efforts have stepped up.
This brings up an interesting note that Tom Grazulis made in his supplement
booklet/guide to "Tornado Video Classics II: The Magnificent Puzzle."(1993)
On 6 August 1977, the area of Central Illinois experienced an outbreak of
severe weather. Project NIMROD (Northern Illinois Meteorological Research
on Downbursts) was ongoing at the time. From this outbreak, they discovered
18 tornadoes that most likely would not have been documented.
Tom wrote: "Eight (of the tornadoes) were found to be associated with the
wind shear on the periphery of microbursts and 10 were probably so-called
'gustnadoes' that occurred along the gust front." In addition, he added
that "many of these tornadoes could be documented only because they
encountered corn fields."
In conclusion, Tom said, in his opinion, "If every microburst occurred over
a cornfield and every microburst was surveyed by Fujita-trained eyes, then
the number of tornadoes recorded each year would be double what we are
presently counting."
Of course, this brings up the whole discussion, as presented in recent years
by Chuck Doswell (1998) about "What is a Tornado?" As Chuck states in his
paper: "I certainly would find it easy to deny gustnadoes (as I have defined
them) the status of true tornadoes. Unfortunately, it may be hard to train
folks to be able to distinguish them from other vortices occurring in
conjunction with deep, moist convection."
Great point! Let's say Ma & Pa Kettle are sitting in their homestead one
evening. A storm rolls through, and produces a gustnado which uproots a
couple of trees and takes off the awning over the front porch. As the
gustnado passes, they manage to catch a glimpse of the swirling vortex.
When asked by authorities, what would they say? Of course, in their minds
it was a tornado.
My point to this discussion is: Exactly where do we draw the line in
tornado statistics? Do we keep gustnadoes out of the "final count." Chuck
makes an interesting argument about expanding the data base to include MORE
information about the storm, its characteristics, and many other items of
information. For chasers new and old (yahoo or not), you should read
Chuck's discussion:
http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/~doswell/a_tornado/atornado.html
If you've read it before, it doesn't hurt to read it again. That's what I
just did!
Any thoughts or ideas, private or public, are gladly welcomed about this
discussion!
Rodney
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney Price
Rock Chalk Jayhawk!
f5vortex at southwind.net RodneyDYoung at netscape.net

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
010

Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 18:23:57 +1030
From: Duane Van Schoonhoven [vanscho at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: Brisbane
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi Nandina,

Over time, it does get easier to understand the technical side of
meteorology if you keep reading about it and asking questions.
My interest in weather has been a my motivation in learning more
about it. Remember this, everyone who is on this list has been a
wx novice sometime in their lives. It is a complex subject!

Free free to ask me, and probably anyone on the list, for help.
And if you prefer, ask via private email.

Cheers,

Duane Van Schoonhoven
Paracombe (Adelaide),
South Australia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
011

X-Originating-Ip: [203.2.193.71]
From: "Patrick Tobin" [pdtobin at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: More dangerous swells for NSW?
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:07:51 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all,

The models seem to suggest that the path of the low currently
TC Frank will pass south through the Tasman sea during next
week. Whilst its path is likely to keep it well away from the
coast, its predicted trajectory has it moving parallel for almost
the entire NSW coast before eventually moving off to the SE.

I guess that means some more big waves for NSW beaches over the 
next week?

Patrick from Canberra (and flat Lake Burley Griffin :-(     )


PS Hoping for something a little bit more substantial developing
this coming Tueday than we had this last week....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
012

From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: More dangerous swells for NSW?
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:36:51 +1100
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I have been keeping an eye on this situation as well, it depends a lot on
what sort of isobar compression we get between Frank and any high pressure
near New Zealand, the models do have some of that occurring so it could be
wax the surfboard early next week.

Sure could do some rain though, over a week without significant rain in
February is rare here.

Michael



>The models seem to suggest that the path of the low currently
>TC Frank will pass south through the Tasman sea during next
>week. Whilst its path is likely to keep it well away from the
>coast, its predicted trajectory has it moving parallel for almost
>the entire NSW coast before eventually moving off to the SE.
>
>I guess that means some more big waves for NSW beaches over the
>next week?
>
>Patrick from Canberra (and flat Lake Burley Griffin :-(     )
>
>
>PS Hoping for something a little bit more substantial developing
>this coming Tueday than we had this last week....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
013

From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Bushfire Smoke
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:29:27 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Very smoky to the west at sunset here too ( Wollongong ), appears to be a
decent sized fire out there.

Michael



-----Original Message-----
>
>Hi All,
> Very smoggy the last couple of days with the smoke from the bushfire at
the
>back of Oberon. Another blue sky above all the smoke.
>
>At 09.50am at Orange 17C, 1018, 25%, E/ENE 5-10 Kmh.
>
>
>
> Terry.
>
>mailto:dymprog at mpx.com.au