|
Storm News
[Index][Aussie-Wx] |
Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: Friday, 16 April 1999 |
From Subject
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
002 Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
003 Phil Bagust [paisley at cobweb.com.au] Sydney Supercell 14/4
004 Bodie_27 at postmaster.co.uk CAPE program
005 Michael_Bath at amp.com.au The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
006 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
007 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Telegraph articles.
008 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
009 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Emergency Siren
010 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
011 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
012 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Emergency Siren
013 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
014 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Heavy rain in Port Macquarie this morning
015 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Emergency Siren
016 Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au Emergency Siren
017 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] NZ cold outbreak
018 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Emergency Siren
019 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
020 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Sydney Supercell, April 14, 1999
021 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Sydney Supercell 14/4
022 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
023 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
024 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
025 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Heavy rain in Sydney
026 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
027 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
028 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Emergency Siren
029 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
030 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
031 "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au] May to July Climate Outlook
032 Michael Fewings [mike at strikeone.com.au] Lightning and rain
033 "Ben Tichborne" [tich at netaccess.co.nz] NZ cold outbreak
034 Jacob [jacob at iinet.net.au] May to July Climate Outlook
035 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] May to July Climate Outlook
036 "Patrick Tobin" [pdtobin at hotmail.com] Where to after Sydney?
037 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Night outing
038 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Where to after Sydney?
039 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] May to July Climate Outlook
040 "James Crouch" [jacrouch at AODC.gov.au] Heavy rain in Sydney
041 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Lightning and rain
042 "Jason" [kevans at kisser.net.au] Tropical Low finally getting its act together
043 Greg CURTIS [curtisg at ecn.net.au] Where to after Sydney?
044 Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
045 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Lightning and rain
046 Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au] Where to after Sydney?
047 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
048 Andrew Wall [astroman at wantree.com.au] Adelaides weather or lack of :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
001
X-Sender: jra at upnaway.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:23:06 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
My final word on the Sydney storm. In all reality if a warning was out
who would have heard it anyway? Of those who did hear it, who would have
acted on it? All those homes would still be damaged. So its all
hypotectical bullshit if you ask me. The media do nothing to help when
warnings are out. Sure the BOM did make an error but was it really what
caused all the damage? No, its the same old story, education. It always has
been. Warnings smorenings, all I ever tell people is yes we that we do have
real tornadoes in WA and that. Last winter the BOM here ran ads on what to
do in a severe thunderstorm and that they are deadly, and then while a
severe thunderstorm advice was out some jockeys decided to go out and
train. Now there is one less jockey because he had no concept of the power
of a CG strike not becasue of any warning. Like i said the BOM did make an
error but the media's mis-reporting of tornadoes and the such plays a big
part of what happened. That lady on the news who said "dont ever trust them
again" well if the BOM had phoned her house personally she would still be
in the same place. No doubt the BOM had the chance to cover themselves via
Michael T,
but lets keep it in perspective. Ira Fehlberg
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
002
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:50:02 +1000
From: Don White [donwhite at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
David...
If you look closely at the radar two storm cells met not far from you at
Beacon Hill and me at Frenchs Forest - probably near Oxford Falls where
54 mm of rain fell in 20 minutes. A heaviest hail was from the cell
moving NNE from the eastern suburbs. The other cell suddenly "shot up"
near Chatswood and moved NE. This cell brought very heavy rain and hail
before it moved across Bilgola and out to sea but the size of the hail
from this one appears to be less.
A look at the radar patterns from 6 pm does not excuse the forecasters
from either shift from doing their job.
Don White
DavidC at thevortex.com wrote:
>
> With any luck we can have some giant hail
> as a special guest at our next Sydney ASWA
> meeting.
>
> Darren Heys, who attends Sydney ASWA
> meetings, mentioned that some Optus
> employees at Rosebery (on the fringe of the
> hardest hit area in Sydneys inner south)
> had kept frozen a few tennis ball sized
> stones. I asked him to try to ensure that
> they are kept in safe hands until we can
> get a good look rather than ending up in
> someone's drink.
>
> That radar image in the telegraph mirror
> was great - I was hoping I could get the
> jpeg off their website but of course it
> wasn't there. Based on my observations last
> night and the path of the storm, Im sure
> that the meso must have gone pretty well
> right over my suburb (Beacon Hill)...not to
> be egocentric - it just gets you thinking
> about the possibilities. The sudden lull
> in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
> (probably associated with the main updraft)
> then finally sudden heavy hail had me
> suspicious...it also had that eerie feeling
> that tells you it's no ordinary storm -
> wish I could bottle that feeling.
>
> On the warning front I really feel sorry
> for the forecaster who was grilled by the
> press - I mean we all make mistakes. From
> what I can gather, he inherited the 7pm hot
> seat from a more ignorant person who seems
> to have totally disregarded Michael Ts and
> possibly other spotter information.
>
> David
>
> _____________________________________________
> Get your free personalized email address at
> http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
003
X-Sender: paisley at mail.cobweb.com.au
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:16:10 +0930
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Phil Bagust [paisley at cobweb.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell 14/4
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I suppose a good media slant for the ASWA would be a comment that goes
something like.....
"...well, it's terrible about the hail damage and all, but at least this
sucker didn't drop a nocturnal funnel over suburban Sydney..."
Scary thought. One day it'll happen.
My last comment on the subject.....
Phil 'Paisley' Bagust
paisley at cobweb.com.au
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
004
From: Bodie_27 at postmaster.co.uk
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: POSTMASTER
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:49:37 +0100
Subject: aus-wx: CAPE program
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hey Ben from Brisbane here..
After a long conversation with someone from the Severe Weather section at
BOM a few days ago, i found out they have a program that gives them some
idea of what the CAPE figures will be like during the day by using the
morning soundings, and the obs during the day.. it's called "suntool".. he
wasn't sure if it was publicly available or written specially for BOM..
does anyone know anything about it, or where i could buy a copy?
It was interesting to find out what variables they look at, and wich models
stand out from the rest too them.. He couldn't say enough about EC - but i
was surprised they dont seem to like AVN much at all..
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
005
From: Michael_Bath at amp.com.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: AMP at NET
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:18:30 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>My final word on the Sydney storm. In all reality if a warning was out
>who would have heard it anyway? Of those who did hear it, who would have
>acted on it? All those homes would still be damaged. So its all
>hypotectical bullshit if you ask me. The media do nothing to help when
>warnings are out.
[snip]
I'm a little surprised by this comment. In areas/cities where large hail
does occur fairly regularly (eg Sydney & Brisbane), many people do take
note of the advices and warnings issued by the BoM via the media. Obviously
nothing could be done to prevent damage to homes, but given that 60,000
cars were damaged, many thousands could have been moved by the more
cautious owners. Reional NSW TV stations display advices as scrolling
messages during broadcasts, however this does not happen in Sydney and is
sadly a major disspointment of the networks here.
Education will help those with some interest in weather, but you cannot
educate those with no interest or desire to know.
Michael
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
006
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:50:21 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I can relate to the CG barage, I done 2 mins of video before it had me
running for the car. I am not one who runs readily, but when you are under
tall pine trees on top of hill..... well I figured that I had two options,
walk into the middle of a open patch and sit down ( tempting ) or retreat to
car.
Anyway at the next ASWA meeting I will bring the tape and you hear the CG's.
Michael
>about the possibilities. The sudden lull
>in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
>(probably associated with the main updraft)
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
007
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Telegraph articles.
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:46:07 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Michael and others
I do not know why she bothered interviewing us ? No mention of AWSA or us.
Oh well least the BOM may breath a sigh of relief.
The dreaded mini-tornado word was used in one article.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael_Bath at amp.com.au [Michael_Bath at amp.com.au]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Date: Friday, 16 April 1999 9:15
Subject: Re: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
>
>
>
>>My final word on the Sydney storm. In all reality if a warning was out
>>who would have heard it anyway? Of those who did hear it, who would have
>>acted on it? All those homes would still be damaged. So its all
>>hypotectical bullshit if you ask me. The media do nothing to help when
>>warnings are out.
> [snip]
>
>I'm a little surprised by this comment. In areas/cities where large hail
>does occur fairly regularly (eg Sydney & Brisbane), many people do take
>note of the advices and warnings issued by the BoM via the media. Obviously
>nothing could be done to prevent damage to homes, but given that 60,000
>cars were damaged, many thousands could have been moved by the more
>cautious owners. Reional NSW TV stations display advices as scrolling
>messages during broadcasts, however this does not happen in Sydney and is
>sadly a major disspointment of the networks here.
>
>Education will help those with some interest in weather, but you cannot
>educate those with no interest or desire to know.
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
008
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:21:04 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Very True Michael. I have seen on numerous occasions in Taree & Wollongong
when a severe advice was issued cars with blankets on them or people in the
process of organising some sort of protection. What has to also be
remebered is that severe damage in severe storms is also occasioned through
debris being blown around.......a warning allows people to organise
equipment etc that can turn into debris during the storm.
As for use of the siren I totally disagree with Anthony's statement
regarding the "mass panic" it may cause. So because of a "maybe" potential
we don't use the siren at all? uhuh I don't think so. It was developed for
the use to prevent what happened in Sydney. At least it may have brought
home the potential of the severity of the storm to allot of people who have
no idea that "allot of lightning" is an indication of a severe storm.
We have to remember one age old adage "prevention is better then
cure........." and on this occasion it seems to be absolutely correct.
Paul.
Michael_Bath at amp.com.au on 16/04/99 09:18:30
Please respond to aussie-weather at world.std.com
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
cc: (bcc: Paul Mossman/LCO/NSW_AG)
Subject: Re: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
>My final word on the Sydney storm. In all reality if a warning was out
>who would have heard it anyway? Of those who did hear it, who would have
>acted on it? All those homes would still be damaged. So its all
>hypotectical bullshit if you ask me. The media do nothing to help when
>warnings are out.
[snip]
I'm a little surprised by this comment. In areas/cities where large hail
does occur fairly regularly (eg Sydney & Brisbane), many people do take
note of the advices and warnings issued by the BoM via the media. Obviously
nothing could be done to prevent damage to homes, but given that 60,000
cars were damaged, many thousands could have been moved by the more
cautious owners. Reional NSW TV stations display advices as scrolling
messages during broadcasts, however this does not happen in Sydney and is
sadly a major disspointment of the networks here.
Education will help those with some interest in weather, but you cannot
educate those with no interest or desire to know.
Michael
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
009
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:00:24 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
> Hi Paul and all,
> I assume that the authority to use the siren comes from the Bureau in
> its warning.
> - Paul G.
>
>
> >From: Anthony Cornelius
> >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell, April 14, 1999
> >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:48:38 +1000
> >
> >Public Education is again the key! People should be constantly
> reminded
> >about this, I would imagine that the panic caused by the sounding of
> the
> >siren during the storm event would have possibly resulted in further
> >injury...
> >
> >Anthony Cornelius
Does NSW even have emergency sirens? (presumably they have some sort
of system - for use in wartime if nothing else - but I've never heard
of them being used in NSW for weather warnings, unlike northern
Australia where they're routinely used for cyclones).
If sirens are rarely or never used for this purpose, it probably would
have been a waste of time to use them on Wednesday - most people
wouldn't have known what it meant (they might have thought that the
Yugoslavs had launched an air raid!).
Blair Trewin
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
010
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:01:34 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I do agree Michael. People do take notice of the warnings as I have worked
in several places and people have told me as I have purposely NOT told them
about what was coming. It's funny how we predict the warnings. So they do
take notice.
I think that the warnings are not effective enough though. I think sirens
be installed like the US, this is direct and grabs your attention.
On another note, I am very surprised on some of the destructive comments
made on this issue. I think this will change once a code of conduct is
passed through. There have been suggestions that the list is there to
exchange ideas and express opinions. However, I do believe that the best
way to do it is through an educated and positive approach and holding back
your feelings.
ASWA has many intelligent members who often are very shy in the real world.
For many years, they have been unchallenged by people around them in terms
of knowledge in meteorology. However, all of a sudden, they are faced with
others that do know about this topic and have varying ideas on how they
perceive certain issues. Such situations has NO right or wrong answers. So
please, be constructive in your e-mails and not so critical towards each
other. The more constructive we are and write down our ideas to come up
with an overall solution, the better. I know some people see the list as a
freedom of speech mechanism and I am NOT at all discouraging conversations.
Amateur meteorlogists are often reluctant to come on the list at first and
can be turned off by negative conversations. And no it is not tough luck
for them: I would rather have people who are willing to participate in a
friendly manner in ASWA encouraging others to join in. My mission through
ASWA is to get those people who have lived in isolation not knowing who to
talk to about weather, meeting others for the first time and not feel
ashamed about it. I am certain many on the list and even off the list are
have been in thi situation.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON THIS FURTHER. This is only meant as
thought provoking exercise and hence the reason I reacted in the way I did
yesterday.
Thank you for your time.
Jimmy Deguara
At 09:18 16/04/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>My final word on the Sydney storm. In all reality if a warning was out
>>who would have heard it anyway? Of those who did hear it, who would have
>>acted on it? All those homes would still be damaged. So its all
>>hypotectical bullshit if you ask me. The media do nothing to help when
>>warnings are out.
> [snip]
>
>I'm a little surprised by this comment. In areas/cities where large hail
>does occur fairly regularly (eg Sydney & Brisbane), many people do take
>note of the advices and warnings issued by the BoM via the media. Obviously
>nothing could be done to prevent damage to homes, but given that 60,000
>cars were damaged, many thousands could have been moved by the more
>cautious owners. Reional NSW TV stations display advices as scrolling
>messages during broadcasts, however this does not happen in Sydney and is
>sadly a major disspointment of the networks here.
>
>Education will help those with some interest in weather, but you cannot
>educate those with no interest or desire to know.
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
011
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:02:28 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I'm afraid ther has been more heavy falls during the night but thankfully
inland from the devasted areas. Some localised flash flodding occurred.
Matt also received heavy rain but I want to discuss further the amount he
received 106mm... He is still investigating this amount.
On the storm front, Milton Spear?? from the weather Bureau was one affected
by the storm and lives in the suburb of Erskenville?? He has officially
measured hail of 9cm and I think this is more the go in the most devasted
areas. If anyone saw the footage of the splash of huge hailstones in the
water, that is indicative of 9 to 10 cm hail. Whether some were fused, then
that is another story.
They are now saying this is the largest hail recorded in Sydney
You simply don't get roofs smashed by hail less than 7cm. I also believe
that the hailstorm at Toongabbie which was recorded to have dropped hail up
to 7cm in 1992 had larger hail although wind driven hail can still cause
major damage.
Jimmy Deguara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
012
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:16:49 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Blair - we have ads all the time giving an example of what the siren sounds
like and when its supposed to be used. So i would hope that when it was
used people would stop and listen why.
Paul.
Blair Trewin on 16/04/99 10:00:24
Please respond to aussie-weather at world.std.com
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
cc: (bcc: Paul Mossman/LCO/NSW_AG)
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
>
> Hi Paul and all,
> I assume that the authority to use the siren comes from the Bureau in
> its warning.
> - Paul G.
>
>
> >From: Anthony Cornelius
> >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell, April 14, 1999
> >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:48:38 +1000
> >
> >Public Education is again the key! People should be constantly
> reminded
> >about this, I would imagine that the panic caused by the sounding of
> the
> >siren during the storm event would have possibly resulted in further
> >injury...
> >
> >Anthony Cornelius
Does NSW even have emergency sirens? (presumably they have some sort
of system - for use in wartime if nothing else - but I've never heard
of them being used in NSW for weather warnings, unlike northern
Australia where they're routinely used for cyclones).
If sirens are rarely or never used for this purpose, it probably would
have been a waste of time to use them on Wednesday - most people
wouldn't have known what it meant (they might have thought that the
Yugoslavs had launched an air raid!).
Blair Trewin
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
013
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:41:32 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
What would be way cool is if people still have some of this hail in
freezers, then to get someone to make moulds and cast some replica
stones in epoxy or something.
What a conversation piece, eh? :)
I know the storm caused absolute mayhem and has turned some lives upside
down, but am I the only one who thinks that it would have been totally
amazing to stand outside in the hail with a hardhat and some rugby armour?
Bang! Donk! weeee! Ouch!
Chris, suffering from depressing bouts of clear sunny autumn days.
At 10:02 16/04/99 , you wrote:
>I'm afraid ther has been more heavy falls during the night but thankfully
>inland from the devasted areas. Some localised flash flodding occurred.
>Matt also received heavy rain but I want to discuss further the amount he
>received 106mm... He is still investigating this amount.
>
>On the storm front, Milton Spear?? from the weather Bureau was one affected
>by the storm and lives in the suburb of Erskenville?? He has officially
>measured hail of 9cm and I think this is more the go in the most devasted
>areas. If anyone saw the footage of the splash of huge hailstones in the
>water, that is indicative of 9 to 10 cm hail. Whether some were fused, then
>that is another story.
>
>They are now saying this is the largest hail recorded in Sydney
>
>You simply don't get roofs smashed by hail less than 7cm. I also believe
>that the hailstorm at Toongabbie which was recorded to have dropped hail up
>to 7cm in 1992 had larger hail although wind driven hail can still cause
>major damage.
>
>Jimmy Deguara
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
014
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:19:02 +1000
Subject: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Port Macquarie this morning
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Not sure what Official figures are but it was heavy - torrential this
morning for almost 1 hour between 5am - 6am (it was that loud it woke me
up....)
8/8 here with on & off shower activity.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
015
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:20:14 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>
>
> Blair - we have ads all the time giving an example of what the siren sounds
> like and when its supposed to be used. So i would hope that when it was
> used people would stop and listen why.
>
> Paul.
Fine for where it is used - but does this include Sydney? It is
certainly not used for this purpose in either Canberra or Melbourne.
Blair
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
016
From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:36:14 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Well thats probably a good question - it is certainly advertised throughout
Country areas and I have heard the siren on the radio2 times in the Taree
area (both for storm warnings).
Paul.
Blair Trewin on 16/04/99 11:20:14
Please respond to aussie-weather at world.std.com
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
cc: (bcc: Paul Mossman/LCO/NSW_AG)
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
>
>
>
> Blair - we have ads all the time giving an example of what the siren
sounds
> like and when its supposed to be used. So i would hope that when it was
> used people would stop and listen why.
>
> Paul.
Fine for where it is used - but does this include Sydney? It is
certainly not used for this purpose in either Canberra or Melbourne.
Blair
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
017
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: aus-wx: NZ cold outbreak
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Aussie Weather)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:43:26 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
There's a fairly substantial early-season cold outbreak currently
affecting New Zealand, especially the South Island.
Forecasts are for snow down to 200-300 metres with up to 10cm above
400m. However, Invercargill was reporting 2.4 C at 1200 (local time);
that sort of number suggests to me that snow is probably falling
there, at sea level.
(Current NZ surface obs are available at the Victoria University of
Wellington - http://www.geo.vuw.ac.nz/, then go Disciplines ->
Meteorology in the menu. Warnings and brief forecasts are at the NZ
Met Service site, http://www.met.co.nz/. )
Blair Trewin
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
018
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:27:45 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Blair and all,
Apparently last year, each capital city had a warning siren (the same
siren at the TC warning one) placed in its CBD, this was to be used for
fires/TC's/severe events etc. Radio stations have also been given a
'record' of the siren, and when they are told too - they are to
broadcast this over the radio. It is an extremely effective way IMO(In
My Opinion) as people suddenly take note - it should only be used in
very severe situations though. As of yet, I have not heard it used,
except for TC warnings, and at the current level, I don't believe it
ever will be used for anything else except for TC's.
Anthony Cornelius
Blair Trewin wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Paul and all,
> > I assume that the authority to use the siren comes from the Bureau in
> > its warning.
> > - Paul G.
> >
> >
> > >From: Anthony Cornelius
> > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell, April 14, 1999
> > >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:48:38 +1000
> > >
> > >Public Education is again the key! People should be constantly
> > reminded
> > >about this, I would imagine that the panic caused by the sounding of
> > the
> > >siren during the storm event would have possibly resulted in further
> > >injury...
> > >
> > >Anthony Cornelius
> Does NSW even have emergency sirens? (presumably they have some sort
> of system - for use in wartime if nothing else - but I've never heard
> of them being used in NSW for weather warnings, unlike northern
> Australia where they're routinely used for cyclones).
>
> If sirens are rarely or never used for this purpose, it probably would
> have been a waste of time to use them on Wednesday - most people
> wouldn't have known what it meant (they might have thought that the
> Yugoslavs had launched an air raid!).
>
> Blair Trewin
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
019
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:29:57 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Ho David,
Tell them to put the hailstones in sealed freezer bags otherwise they will tend to shrink quite quickly due to sublimation.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: DavidC at thevortex.com [SMTP:DavidC at thevortex.com]
Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 0:03
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
With any luck we can have some giant hail
as a special guest at our next Sydney ASWA
meeting.
Darren Heys, who attends Sydney ASWA
meetings, mentioned that some Optus
employees at Rosebery (on the fringe of the
hardest hit area in Sydneys inner south)
had kept frozen a few tennis ball sized
stones. I asked him to try to ensure that
they are kept in safe hands until we can
get a good look rather than ending up in
someone's drink.
That radar image in the telegraph mirror
was great - I was hoping I could get the
jpeg off their website but of course it
wasn't there. Based on my observations last
night and the path of the storm, Im sure
that the meso must have gone pretty well
right over my suburb (Beacon Hill)...not to
be egocentric - it just gets you thinking
about the possibilities. The sudden lull
in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
(probably associated with the main updraft)
then finally sudden heavy hail had me
suspicious...it also had that eerie feeling
that tells you it's no ordinary storm -
wish I could bottle that feeling.
On the warning front I really feel sorry
for the forecaster who was grilled by the
press - I mean we all make mistakes. From
what I can gather, he inherited the 7pm hot
seat from a more ignorant person who seems
to have totally disregarded Michael Ts and
possibly other spotter information.
David
_____________________________________________
Get your free personalized email address at
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
020
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell, April 14, 1999
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:31:30 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Anthony.
I agree with all your comments and also those of Ira. There should be
warnings if anything looks even remotely possible. This is how the USA
works and no one gets a red face if nothing eventuates. I stayed near
Denver Colorado for 6 weeks in June once, and the county where I was
located fell under a severe thunderstorm warning/tornado watch 4 times, but
the only thing I ever saw was scattered Tcu and a couple of small cells
(bummer). Of course I understand that too many non-events will cause
people to begin disregarding warnings - but at least the duty of care has
been done. (Note: Failure to issue a warning for a real disaster sure
causes plenty of red faces....)
But really, any goon who stays out in a Kayak or fishing at night when
there must have been an awesome display of approaching lightning visible
for an hour or so, and obviously getting closer, deserves what they get.
You can't tell me these guys would not have been aware of the danger.
It reminds me of the DH's who went swimming in flooded creeks/rivers here
in Feb.
Regards.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
021
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell 14/4
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:29:52 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hmmm..
I recall a good few years back observing prone of the largest most intense
electrical storms I have ever seen pass over Sydney (early January I think)
at around 7:00pm. Intense continuous lightning & thunder - not much rain.
As it passed overhead Hunters Hill - there was this most ungodly hissing
noise. Did quite a bit of damage to Chatswood I recall. Believe now that
it may have been a suspended funnel.
Regards.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Bagust [SMTP:paisley at cobweb.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 7:46
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell 14/4
I suppose a good media slant for the ASWA would be a comment that goes
something like.....
"...well, it's terrible about the hail damage and all, but at least this
sucker didn't drop a nocturnal funnel over suburban Sydney..."
Scary thought. One day it'll happen.
My last comment on the subject.....
Phil 'Paisley' Bagust
paisley at cobweb.com.au
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
022
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:31:22 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy
The Courier mail stated "9cm hail" and also 'some hail was as big as
rock mellons" (!!!) I saw some of the damage on the news last night,
and just looking at the rooves, I was completely speechless and at
awe...to think that was hail to do that!!! There were also reports of
many injured pets and animals, and also last night - the news said a
plastic chair was smashed to pieces!!! I thought these plastic chairs
were indestructible! Well...if they can take my weight, I assumed they
were indestructible
Well - was this hail big enough for you Jimmy? :)
Anthony Cornelius
Jimmy Deguara wrote:
>
> I'm afraid ther has been more heavy falls during the night but thankfully
> inland from the devasted areas. Some localised flash flodding occurred.
> Matt also received heavy rain but I want to discuss further the amount he
> received 106mm... He is still investigating this amount.
>
> On the storm front, Milton Spear?? from the weather Bureau was one affected
> by the storm and lives in the suburb of Erskenville?? He has officially
> measured hail of 9cm and I think this is more the go in the most devasted
> areas. If anyone saw the footage of the splash of huge hailstones in the
> water, that is indicative of 9 to 10 cm hail. Whether some were fused, then
> that is another story.
>
> They are now saying this is the largest hail recorded in Sydney
>
> You simply don't get roofs smashed by hail less than 7cm. I also believe
> that the hailstorm at Toongabbie which was recorded to have dropped hail up
> to 7cm in 1992 had larger hail although wind driven hail can still cause
> major damage.
>
> Jimmy Deguara
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> Jimmy Deguara
> Vice President ASWA
> from Schofields, Sydney
> e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
> homepage with Michael Bath
> http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
023
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:36:25 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at stealth.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
This reminded me of something else, the channel 7 late night news said a
firemen reported a football sized chunk of hail smashed his window!!!
If you saw the hole, it is HUGE...I won't say what I said when I heard
that ... or there'll be too many *beeps!* But, this was certainly a huge
hole, and what type of football? There's only one type of football -
Rugby League!!
Off to uni now,
Anthony Cornelius
Chris Maunder wrote:
>
> What would be way cool is if people still have some of this hail in
> freezers, then to get someone to make moulds and cast some replica
> stones in epoxy or something.
>
> What a conversation piece, eh? :)
>
> I know the storm caused absolute mayhem and has turned some lives upside
> down, but am I the only one who thinks that it would have been totally
> amazing to stand outside in the hail with a hardhat and some rugby armour?
>
> Bang! Donk! weeee! Ouch!
>
> Chris, suffering from depressing bouts of clear sunny autumn days.
>
> At 10:02 16/04/99 , you wrote:
> >I'm afraid ther has been more heavy falls during the night but thankfully
> >inland from the devasted areas. Some localised flash flodding occurred.
> >Matt also received heavy rain but I want to discuss further the amount he
> >received 106mm... He is still investigating this amount.
> >
> >On the storm front, Milton Spear?? from the weather Bureau was one affected
> >by the storm and lives in the suburb of Erskenville?? He has officially
> >measured hail of 9cm and I think this is more the go in the most devasted
> >areas. If anyone saw the footage of the splash of huge hailstones in the
> >water, that is indicative of 9 to 10 cm hail. Whether some were fused, then
> >that is another story.
> >
> >They are now saying this is the largest hail recorded in Sydney
> >
> >You simply don't get roofs smashed by hail less than 7cm. I also believe
> >that the hailstorm at Toongabbie which was recorded to have dropped hail up
> >to 7cm in 1992 had larger hail although wind driven hail can still cause
> >major damage.
> >
> >Jimmy Deguara
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
> Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
> Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
024
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:43:51 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Anthony, I want my own hail in the country somewhere.
Yes I was quite interested in the reports. They now say that the 9 cm hail
is the largest seen in Sydney/NSW?? I think they are now being very
conservative with measurements so I will remind everyone to carry calipers
or at least rulers in their bag etc. I am one who was known to estimate
size but now have a caliper. I must change my bad habits although I don't
think I was going to go out with a crash helmit to grab some hailstones. Or
then again....
My friend from another high school was in the 21 January Turramurra storm
1991. He said he and his brother went out with helmits and removed the car
to put in the garage or something like that. Then the tree fell right on
where the car was. This was quite silly considering wind gusts reached from
190km/hr to 230km/hr with golfball sized hail.....
Jimmy Deguara
At 12:31 16/04/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi Jimmy
>The Courier mail stated "9cm hail" and also 'some hail was as big as
>rock mellons" (!!!) I saw some of the damage on the news last night,
>and just looking at the rooves, I was completely speechless and at
>awe...to think that was hail to do that!!! There were also reports of
>many injured pets and animals, and also last night - the news said a
>plastic chair was smashed to pieces!!! I thought these plastic chairs
>were indestructible! Well...if they can take my weight, I assumed they
>were indestructible
>
>Well - was this hail big enough for you Jimmy? :)
>
>Anthony Cornelius
>
>Jimmy Deguara wrote:
>>
>> I'm afraid ther has been more heavy falls during the night but thankfully
>> inland from the devasted areas. Some localised flash flodding occurred.
>> Matt also received heavy rain but I want to discuss further the amount he
>> received 106mm... He is still investigating this amount.
>>
>> On the storm front, Milton Spear?? from the weather Bureau was one affected
>> by the storm and lives in the suburb of Erskenville?? He has officially
>> measured hail of 9cm and I think this is more the go in the most devasted
>> areas. If anyone saw the footage of the splash of huge hailstones in the
>> water, that is indicative of 9 to 10 cm hail. Whether some were fused, then
>> that is another story.
>>
>> They are now saying this is the largest hail recorded in Sydney
>>
>> You simply don't get roofs smashed by hail less than 7cm. I also believe
>> that the hailstorm at Toongabbie which was recorded to have dropped hail up
>> to 7cm in 1992 had larger hail although wind driven hail can still cause
>> major damage.
>>
>> Jimmy Deguara
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------
>> Jimmy Deguara
>> Vice President ASWA
>> from Schofields, Sydney
>> e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
>> homepage with Michael Bath
>> http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
>> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
>> message.
>> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
025
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:51:28 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
> Anthony, I want my own hail in the country somewhere.
>
> Yes I was quite interested in the reports. They now say that the 9 cm hail
> is the largest seen in Sydney/NSW?? I think they are now being very
> conservative with measurements so I will remind everyone to carry calipers
> or at least rulers in their bag etc. I am one who was known to estimate
> size but now have a caliper. I must change my bad habits although I don't
> think I was going to go out with a crash helmit to grab some hailstones. Or
> then again....
I understand the 9cm was measured by an off-duty BoM forecaster (at home)
who specialises in severe weather, so it can be considered reliable.
Blair Trewin
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
026
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:03:35 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Blair,
I am saying that the Bureau is asking for more precise measurements. I
forgot to mention that some of the previous hail records may have been
discarded. You may no more. Have they accepted or discarded the 14cm hail
record, the 11cm hail that fell in Singleton??
And yes, I know that Milton would be reliable. I can say I have been
estimating ranges of sizes of hail. I would say that in such a case of very
severe hail, only measured hail will be considered. I wished they (the
media) had asked people to measure/photograph the size of the hail. I hope
there are others who experienced the largest hailstones have photographed
and/or measured them.
Jimmy Deguara
At 12:51 16/04/99 +1000, you wrote:
>>
>> Anthony, I want my own hail in the country somewhere.
>>
>> Yes I was quite interested in the reports. They now say that the 9 cm hail
>> is the largest seen in Sydney/NSW?? I think they are now being very
>> conservative with measurements so I will remind everyone to carry calipers
>> or at least rulers in their bag etc. I am one who was known to estimate
>> size but now have a caliper. I must change my bad habits although I don't
>> think I was going to go out with a crash helmit to grab some hailstones. Or
>> then again....
>I understand the 9cm was measured by an off-duty BoM forecaster (at home)
>who specialises in severe weather, so it can be considered reliable.
>
>Blair Trewin
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
027
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:08:13 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Michael.
Now heres an interesting thing. I have previously observed a sudden CG
barrage immediately preceeding a heavy hailstorm. In my case it was the
devastating Turramurra storm back in '91 (??) I observed this from an
elevated position in St. Leonards. Just before reaching the Turramurra
area there was a burst of intense CG's apparently focused on the tall
buildings in Chatswood followed by immediate development of a nice green
rain foot in the background. But for about 2 mins these towers literally
looked like one of those Nebula balls...
I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in preciptation
immediately after a close CG. I theorise that electrical field strength
plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in association
with updrafts.
My theory is that a CG burst causes a massive discharging of the storm,
causing huge drops in the electrical field strength subsequently removing
forces assisting suspension a large amount of charged rain drops -
initiating a downburst. Once started this causes a runaway effect due to
falling rain dragging air which lowers air resistance, etc.. Certainly
what got Turramurra was a severe microburst strong enough to lift large
trees out of the ground and deliver them root ball first through roofs of
houses (media report).
This leads to the interesting speculation that the tall buildings in
Chatswood were responsible for sudden discharging of the storm as the storm
front arrived and thus the damage subsequently caused.... Just a theory.
John W.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Thompson [SMTP:michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 9:50
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
I can relate to the CG barage, I done 2 mins of video before it had me
running for the car. I am not one who runs readily, but when you are under
tall pine trees on top of hill..... well I figured that I had two options,
walk into the middle of a open patch and sit down ( tempting ) or retreat
to
car.
Anyway at the next ASWA meeting I will bring the tape and you hear the
CG's.
Michael
>about the possibilities. The sudden lull
>in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
>(probably associated with the main updraft)
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
028
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:11:16 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Emergency Siren
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Yeah - Martin & Molloy had great fun playing the siren sound every
5 minutes on the day before it became the official warning signal
(and hence could only be played in emergencies).
At 12:27 16/04/99 , you wrote:
>Hi Blair and all,
>
>Apparently last year, each capital city had a warning siren (the same
>siren at the TC warning one) placed in its CBD, this was to be used for
>fires/TC's/severe events etc. Radio stations have also been given a
>'record' of the siren, and when they are told too - they are to
>broadcast this over the radio. It is an extremely effective way IMO(In
>My Opinion) as people suddenly take note - it should only be used in
>very severe situations though. As of yet, I have not heard it used,
>except for TC warnings, and at the current level, I don't believe it
>ever will be used for anything else except for TC's.
>
>Anthony Cornelius
>
>Blair Trewin wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hi Paul and all,
>> > I assume that the authority to use the siren comes from the Bureau in
>> > its warning.
>> > - Paul G.
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: Anthony Cornelius
>> > >Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>> > >To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>> > >Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Supercell, April 14, 1999
>> > >Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:48:38 +1000
>> > >
>> > >Public Education is again the key! People should be constantly
>> > reminded
>> > >about this, I would imagine that the panic caused by the sounding of
>> > the
>> > >siren during the storm event would have possibly resulted in further
>> > >injury...
>> > >
>> > >Anthony Cornelius
>> Does NSW even have emergency sirens? (presumably they have some sort
>> of system - for use in wartime if nothing else - but I've never heard
>> of them being used in NSW for weather warnings, unlike northern
>> Australia where they're routinely used for cyclones).
>>
>> If sirens are rarely or never used for this purpose, it probably would
>> have been a waste of time to use them on Wednesday - most people
>> wouldn't have known what it meant (they might have thought that the
>> Yugoslavs had launched an air raid!).
>>
>> Blair Trewin
>> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
>> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
>> message.
>> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
029
X-Sender: jra at upnaway.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:26:42 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: The Sydney Storm a whole lotta bull anway!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Im not saying there wouldnt have been less damage, of course there would
have been and yes people do move cars and the such but really how many
would have was more my point. I agree with what P Mossman said "We have to
remember one age old adage "prevention is better then
cure........." and on this occasion it seems to be absolutely correct. My
point was that we shouldnt be getting all excited by the fact that no
warning was out, it runs a whole lot deeper than that.
At 09:18 16/04/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>My final word on the Sydney storm. In all reality if a warning was out
>>who would have heard it anyway? Of those who did hear it, who would have
>>acted on it? All those homes would still be damaged. So its all
>>hypotectical bullshit if you ask me. The media do nothing to help when
>>warnings are out.
> [snip]
>
>I'm a little surprised by this comment. In areas/cities where large hail
>does occur fairly regularly (eg Sydney & Brisbane), many people do take
>note of the advices and warnings issued by the BoM via the media. Obviously
>nothing could be done to prevent damage to homes, but given that 60,000
>cars were damaged, many thousands could have been moved by the more
>cautious owners. Reional NSW TV stations display advices as scrolling
>messages during broadcasts, however this does not happen in Sydney and is
>sadly a major disspointment of the networks here.
>
>Education will help those with some interest in weather, but you cannot
>educate those with no interest or desire to know.
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
030
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:29:12 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
The amount of force that electrostatics could apply to a hailstone would
be a mere fraction of that provided by intense updrafts. Have you thought
of the converse to your theory: That maybe the intense concentration of
hailstones is what actually causes the intense electrical field? Imagine
all them little bits of ice banging and rubbing together in that massive
Van Der Graf generator in the sky...
Just a thought.
ChrisM
At 13:08 16/04/99 , you wrote:
>I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in preciptation
>immediately after a close CG. I theorise that electrical field strength
>plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in association
>with updrafts.
>
>My theory is that a CG burst causes a massive discharging of the storm,
>causing huge drops in the electrical field strength subsequently removing
>forces assisting suspension a large amount of charged rain drops -
>initiating a downburst. Once started this causes a runaway effect due to
>falling rain dragging air which lowers air resistance, etc.. Certainly
>what got Turramurra was a severe microburst strong enough to lift large
>trees out of the ground and deliver them root ball first through roofs of
>houses (media report).
>
>This leads to the interesting speculation that the tall buildings in
>Chatswood were responsible for sudden discharging of the storm as the storm
>front arrived and thus the damage subsequently caused.... Just a theory.
>
>John W.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Thompson [SMTP:michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
>Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 9:50
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
>
>I can relate to the CG barage, I done 2 mins of video before it had me
>running for the car. I am not one who runs readily, but when you are under
>tall pine trees on top of hill..... well I figured that I had two options,
>walk into the middle of a open patch and sit down ( tempting ) or retreat
>to
>car.
>
>Anyway at the next ASWA meeting I will bring the tape and you hear the
>CG's.
>
>Michael
>
>>about the possibilities. The sudden lull
>>in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
>>(probably associated with the main updraft)
>
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
031
From: "Matthew Piper" [mjpiper at ozemail.com.au]
To: "Aussie Weather Mailing List" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: May to July Climate Outlook
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:56:04 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by fep8.mail.ozemail.net id OAA01736
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id OAA23946
Hi Everyone,
Here is the latest climate outlook from the Bureau for those who havent yet
seen it. Looks like the NE of NSW and SE Qld could be in for some more heavy
rain over the coming months.
MEDIA RELEASE - ISSUED 15th APRIL 1999
Three-month Seasonal Climate Outlook Summary: Rainfall probabilities for May
to July 1999.
Higher rainfall more likely in some eastern parts
The National Climate Centre's rainfall outlook for May to July 1999 is that
there is an increased chance (from one-half to about two-thirds) of
exceeding the median rainfall for areas of southeast Queensland and
northeastern New South Wales (see map). Additional analysis indicates that
there is also a significantly increased chance of wetter than average
rainfall in a region of northern Queensland between the towns of Bowen,
Barcaldine, Georgetown and Ingham.
Areas of seasonal outlook skill for this time of year include the areas
mentioned above.
A weak La Ni�a sea-surface temperature (SST) pattern in the tropical Pacific
seen in recent months has weakened further on the surface, although other
climate indicators normally associated with La Ni�a persist. For example,
the Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) has remained moderately high since June
1998. The unofficial SOI for the 30 days ending 12th April is +11, following
the +9 value for both February and March.
Computer models which attempt to predict the development of La Ni�a
aredivided in their current results. Slightly more than half suggest that it
will remain a feature for the next six months, with the others suggesting
more neutral conditions. At this stage, none of the models is indicating the
development of an El Ni�o in the remainder of 1999.
Indices of SST patterns are used to produce the outlook. The indices measure
the strength of La Ni�a/El Ni�o patterns in the Pacific, and a different
pattern in the Indian Ocean. The Pacific index is close to zero, but the
Indian Ocean pattern is showing warmer than average temperatures,
contributing to this forecast.
Note: "wetter than average rainfall" here means three-month rainfall totals
being in the highest one-third of historical values.
Matthew Piper
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
032
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:52:58 +0800
From: Michael Fewings [mike at strikeone.com.au]
Organization: Strike One Lightning Photos
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Aussie Weather [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Lightning and rain
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all
John W. wrote
>I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in
precipitation
>immediately after a close CG. I theorize that electrical
field strength
>plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in
association
>with updrafts.
>snip..
I have observed and widely publisised the notion that most
dangerous time (re being struck by lightning during a
storm), is just as the first rain is starting to fall. There
are commonly as I term "hot spots" within the storm where
Cg's are most common. It is very true as you say that these
are accompanied immediately after by increases in the
intensity of rain. I however query whether the lightning is
the cause of the rain or the other way around. It may be
well be a bit of both.
I do however believe that charge distributions in a cloud
are greatly affected by rain. Since there is no set theory
on the cause of charge build-ups within clouds it is hard to
be definitive as to why this may be the case. I can only
theorize here. As rain falls it changes the average size of
the particles within the cloud. If we view the base of a
thunderstorm while in developing stage the average size of
the drops of water at the base are very small all the way
across. As the storm matures and a down draft with rain
appears, the size of the drops across the base are quite
different. It is a fact that the larger a drop of water, the
less free electrons it has on the surface in relation to its
mass. Hence the areas of different water drop size are
likely to have different charges. The point of a storm where
the change in drop size is most variant is also going to
have the largest potential voltage gradient and therefore
likely to be an area of more frequent discharge. It is also
likely that this discharge is going to extend below the base
of the thunderstorm. It then follows that this being the
closest point of the "cloud originated stepped leader" to
the ground that this would make contact with the ground
first and therefor be the path of the Cg.
--
Michael Fewings
Strike One Lightning Photos
http://strikeone.com.au
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
033
From: "Ben Tichborne" [tich at netaccess.co.nz]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: NZ cold outbreak
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:14:11 +1200
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
> There's a fairly substantial early-season cold outbreak currently
> affecting New Zealand, especially the South Island.
It's certainly arrived in the south of the South Island, and I'll keep the
group posted on its progress. Here in Christchuch, the cold southwesterly
air hasn't arrived yet, but it's been an unusual day dor the city. We've
have westerly to northwesterly winds throughout the day (gales in early
morning), but temperatures have been around 12 -14 degrees celsius - a lot
lower than is normal for this wind direction. But it's only been about 9 -
10 degrees on the West Coast, so the fohn effect still seems to be
operating!.
. However, Invercargill was reporting 2.4 C at 1200 (local time);
> that sort of number suggests to me that snow is probably falling
> there, at sea level.
Strange, inland at Gore the temperature at the same time was about 4
degrees. Invercargill was probably having a localised squall, most probably
of hail and sleet.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
034
X-Sender: jacob at iinet.net.au
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:10:28 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jacob [jacob at iinet.net.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: May to July Climate Outlook
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id PAA24586
At 02:56 PM 16-04-99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>Indices of SST patterns are used to produce the outlook. The indices measure
>the strength of La Ni�a/El Ni�o patterns in the Pacific, and a different
>pattern in the Indian Ocean. The Pacific index is close to zero, but the
>Indian Ocean pattern is showing warmer than average temperatures,
>contributing to this forecast.
Good news for Perth and the SW, when the surface temperatures are warmer
than average over the Indian Ocean our severe storm season is usually good.
This was the case in 1996, and we had a very good season, bringing severe
storm after severe storm, including that tornado in South Perth, and other
smaller tornadoes.
Our severe storm season starts around late May and is finished by October.
Jacob
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
035
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:30:51 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: May to July Climate Outlook
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id PAA24879
Any word on rainfall in the southern tablelands (say, Thredbo and Perisher? :)
At 14:56 16/04/99 , you wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>Here is the latest climate outlook from the Bureau for those who havent yet
>seen it. Looks like the NE of NSW and SE Qld could be in for some more heavy
>rain over the coming months.
>
>
>MEDIA RELEASE - ISSUED 15th APRIL 1999
>
>Three-month Seasonal Climate Outlook Summary: Rainfall probabilities for May
>to July 1999.
>Higher rainfall more likely in some eastern parts
>The National Climate Centre's rainfall outlook for May to July 1999 is that
>there is an increased chance (from one-half to about two-thirds) of
>exceeding the median rainfall for areas of southeast Queensland and
>northeastern New South Wales (see map). Additional analysis indicates that
>there is also a significantly increased chance of wetter than average
>rainfall in a region of northern Queensland between the towns of Bowen,
>Barcaldine, Georgetown and Ingham.
>
>Areas of seasonal outlook skill for this time of year include the areas
>mentioned above.
>
>A weak La Ni�a sea-surface temperature (SST) pattern in the tropical Pacific
>seen in recent months has weakened further on the surface, although other
>climate indicators normally associated with La Ni�a persist. For example,
>the Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) has remained moderately high since June
>1998. The unofficial SOI for the 30 days ending 12th April is +11, following
>the +9 value for both February and March.
>
>Computer models which attempt to predict the development of La Ni�a
>aredivided in their current results. Slightly more than half suggest that it
>will remain a feature for the next six months, with the others suggesting
>more neutral conditions. At this stage, none of the models is indicating the
>development of an El Ni�o in the remainder of 1999.
>
>Indices of SST patterns are used to produce the outlook. The indices measure
>the strength of La Ni�a/El Ni�o patterns in the Pacific, and a different
>pattern in the Indian Ocean. The Pacific index is close to zero, but the
>Indian Ocean pattern is showing warmer than average temperatures,
>contributing to this forecast.
>
>Note: "wetter than average rainfall" here means three-month rainfall totals
>being in the highest one-third of historical values.
>
>Matthew Piper
>
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
036
X-Originating-Ip: [203.37.41.25]
From: "Patrick Tobin" [pdtobin at hotmail.com]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Where to after Sydney?
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:38:55 PDT
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all,
Following the Sydney storm, I have been thinking about some positive
initiatives that ASWA could become involved in. I have a couple of
suggestions.
The first is to develop some dialogue with the insurance industry.
Having just taken a huge hit in Sydney (not to mention the Qld and WA
cyclones as well as sundry other storm damage around the country so
far this year), the industry will be only too acutely aware of the
impact of severe weather on their bottom line. My guess is that they
may be pretty receptive to some well thought through suggestions from
us as to how future losses can be lessened - they may even be prepared
to fund some initiatives.
We need to bear in mind the scale of the current losses - a few well
spent several (or even tens) of thousand dollars through ASWA that
could have reduced the damage bill by only 1 or 2 per cent (ie saving
$6-$8 million dollars) would represent good value for money for the
industry. Can I suggest that each forthcoming ASWA meeting give
consideration to some possible initiatives? We could discuss what
comes out of the meetings on the list for a period and then the
executive or nominated person could then contact the Insurance Council
of Australia with our suggestions.
Obviously some form of public awareness/education campaign comes to
mind - such an idea would need to become far more focused and tangible
before I think we could attract support.
I have also been thinking that perhaps insurance companies might be
willing to fund the wide distribuition of radar imagery (perhaps
through purchasing the imagery from the BOM and having it broadcast on
some spare bandwidth by say the ABC?). That way the general public
could see for themselves what was coming (warning or not) and if a
warning was issued where the storms were.
In country areas especially, warnings are often given for very wide
areas but only a small area is affected by severe conditions. Having
the imagery on television would reduce the problem of people in warned
areas becoming complacent because the last time there was a warning
nothing happened. At least they could see that the storms do exist
even though not in their immediate vicinity.
The general public would not I think need too much education about
radar imagery - they are already conditioned to know that red means
danger. A substantial number of people in my experience in the US are
"radar literate" as a result of the wide availabity of imagery there
through the Weather Channel.
The cost of the above could be seen as high however we (and the
insurance industry) now know the cost of not being adequately
prepared. In relation to the radar charges, I would be surprised if
the revenue was anywhere near even 0.1% of the cost of the damage just
done to Sydney. I am sure that wide availability of that imagery -
even if only a small percentage of people saved their cars as a result
- would have saved the community considerably more.
The other area where ASWA could play a role in the future is in
lobbying for additional resources for and services from the BoM. In my
experience in the Commonwealth bureacracy, if the problem on Wednesday
night was resource related, there will be considerable pressure on
senior BoM management (whether external or self-imposed) to ensure
that Government policy (in this case resource provision) is not seen
as the problem - it is politically far easier to blame a "hapless
employee" or poor equipment.
ASWA could play a role in saying publicly some of the things that the
senior levels of the BoM can't (with the need to be sensitive to the
position of ASWA members who are BoM employees). Maybe the Canberra
members could play a role here..?
Patrick
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
037
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:42:12 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Night outing
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
For those interested, Matthew, Daniel and so on (they are the nearest),
Michael Bath and I are going out to Penrith Panthers, where? in Penrith.
Anyone wanting to come along can either meet us there or e-mail me
jimmyd at ozemail.com.au or ring me on 96271943
I think people know what the topic of discussion is.....
Planning to meet around 6:30pm or thereabouts.
Cya all the there or hope to hear from any of you....
0412 145 710 Michael's Mobile of I'm already gone
Jimmy Deguara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
038
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:00:08 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Where to after Sydney?
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
IF you could raise this issue at the next meeting. I think these are good
points made and now would really have been the time to do it but I think we
need a little more time to become properly established.
By the way, if you do have ideas, can you please either remember them for
the future or jot them down. And this may involve any idea whether it is or
isn't accepted or use. Please understand, we are stretched to the limit
trying to get things off the floor at the moment. Things do take time and
projects will be adopted as we move along, increase numbers. I believe that
ALL ASWA members should take part in projects as they come along. Our main
goal at the moment is to get ourselves registered as ASWA, recruit all the
members which involve a specially designed ASWA form and so on.
Keep the ideas coming and do discuss them.
Jimmy Deguara
At 22:38 15/04/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Following the Sydney storm, I have been thinking about some positive
>initiatives that ASWA could become involved in. I have a couple of
>suggestions.
>
>The first is to develop some dialogue with the insurance industry.
>Having just taken a huge hit in Sydney (not to mention the Qld and WA
>cyclones as well as sundry other storm damage around the country so
>far this year), the industry will be only too acutely aware of the
>impact of severe weather on their bottom line. My guess is that they
>may be pretty receptive to some well thought through suggestions from
>us as to how future losses can be lessened - they may even be prepared
>to fund some initiatives.
>
>We need to bear in mind the scale of the current losses - a few well
>spent several (or even tens) of thousand dollars through ASWA that
>could have reduced the damage bill by only 1 or 2 per cent (ie saving
>$6-$8 million dollars) would represent good value for money for the
>industry. Can I suggest that each forthcoming ASWA meeting give
>consideration to some possible initiatives? We could discuss what
>comes out of the meetings on the list for a period and then the
>executive or nominated person could then contact the Insurance Council
>of Australia with our suggestions.
>
>Obviously some form of public awareness/education campaign comes to
>mind - such an idea would need to become far more focused and tangible
>before I think we could attract support.
>
>I have also been thinking that perhaps insurance companies might be
>willing to fund the wide distribuition of radar imagery (perhaps
>through purchasing the imagery from the BOM and having it broadcast on
>some spare bandwidth by say the ABC?). That way the general public
>could see for themselves what was coming (warning or not) and if a
>warning was issued where the storms were.
>
>In country areas especially, warnings are often given for very wide
>areas but only a small area is affected by severe conditions. Having
>the imagery on television would reduce the problem of people in warned
>areas becoming complacent because the last time there was a warning
>nothing happened. At least they could see that the storms do exist
>even though not in their immediate vicinity.
>
>The general public would not I think need too much education about
>radar imagery - they are already conditioned to know that red means
>danger. A substantial number of people in my experience in the US are
>"radar literate" as a result of the wide availabity of imagery there
>through the Weather Channel.
>
>The cost of the above could be seen as high however we (and the
>insurance industry) now know the cost of not being adequately
>prepared. In relation to the radar charges, I would be surprised if
>the revenue was anywhere near even 0.1% of the cost of the damage just
>done to Sydney. I am sure that wide availability of that imagery -
>even if only a small percentage of people saved their cars as a result
>- would have saved the community considerably more.
>
>The other area where ASWA could play a role in the future is in
>lobbying for additional resources for and services from the BoM. In my
>experience in the Commonwealth bureacracy, if the problem on Wednesday
>night was resource related, there will be considerable pressure on
>senior BoM management (whether external or self-imposed) to ensure
>that Government policy (in this case resource provision) is not seen
>as the problem - it is politically far easier to blame a "hapless
>employee" or poor equipment.
>
>ASWA could play a role in saying publicly some of the things that the
>senior levels of the BoM can't (with the need to be sensitive to the
>position of ASWA members who are BoM employees). Maybe the Canberra
>members could play a role here..?
>
>Patrick
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
039
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: May to July Climate Outlook
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:02:45 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
> Any word on rainfall in the southern tablelands (say, Thredbo and Perisher? :)
I don't think there's much significant signal either way. (At this
time of year there's reasonable forecast skill near the NSW coast,
but not a lot further inland).
Blair Trewin
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
040
From: "James Crouch" [jacrouch at AODC.gov.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:01:46 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 10:02
Subject: aus-wx: Heavy rain in Sydney
> I'm afraid ther has been more heavy falls during the night but thankfully
> inland from the devasted areas.
mmmm, there were a couple of showers last night (12:30 and 2:30, to be
precise) in Rush.Bay. Unfortunately "they" ran out of tarps yesterday, I'm
hoping that they've found some today. Fortunately the showers weren't too
heavy - I'm not sure that my ceiling would cope with to much more water. I
was lucky, at least I could ring work and find out what the radar looked
like.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
041
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Lightning and rain
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:10:23 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Michael,
Yes, there is an alternative theory which may be more attractive... At the
commencement of cell breakdown, i.e., downdraft formation, a large mass of
highly charged particles (rain/hail) high in the atmosphere start moving
downward. As they get closer to the ground field strengths naturally
increase until breakdown occurs. This would also explain why a CG burst
may occur just before onset of a major preciptation/hail event.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Fewings [SMTP:mike at strikeone.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 14:53
To: Aussie Weather
Subject: aus-wx: Lightning and rain
Hi all
John W. wrote
>I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in
precipitation
>immediately after a close CG. I theorize that electrical
field strength
>plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in
association
>with updrafts.
>snip..
I have observed and widely publisised the notion that most
dangerous time (re being struck by lightning during a
storm), is just as the first rain is starting to fall. There
are commonly as I term "hot spots" within the storm where
Cg's are most common. It is very true as you say that these
are accompanied immediately after by increases in the
intensity of rain. I however query whether the lightning is
the cause of the rain or the other way around. It may be
well be a bit of both.
I do however believe that charge distributions in a cloud
are greatly affected by rain. Since there is no set theory
on the cause of charge build-ups within clouds it is hard to
be definitive as to why this may be the case. I can only
theorize here. As rain falls it changes the average size of
the particles within the cloud. If we view the base of a
thunderstorm while in developing stage the average size of
the drops of water at the base are very small all the way
across. As the storm matures and a down draft with rain
appears, the size of the drops across the base are quite
different. It is a fact that the larger a drop of water, the
less free electrons it has on the surface in relation to its
mass. Hence the areas of different water drop size are
likely to have different charges. The point of a storm where
the change in drop size is most variant is also going to
have the largest potential voltage gradient and therefore
likely to be an area of more frequent discharge. It is also
likely that this discharge is going to extend below the base
of the thunderstorm. It then follows that this being the
closest point of the "cloud originated stepped leader" to
the ground that this would make contact with the ground
first and therefor be the path of the Cg.
--
Michael Fewings
Strike One Lightning Photos
http://strikeone.com.au
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
042
From: "Jason" [kevans at kisser.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Tropical Low finally getting its act together
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:25:19 +0800
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
TROPICAL CYCLONE ADVICE NUMBER 1
Issued by the BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY DARWIN
at 3.30 pm CST (4 pm EST) Friday 16/04/1999.
A CYCLONE WATCH has been issued for coastal and island communities between MANINGRIDA AND CAPE SHIELD.
At 3.30 pm CST (4 pm EST) a TROPICAL LOW was centred in the ArafuraSea about 380 kilometres northeast of Nhulunbuy and slow moving. Thelow may move to the west during the next two days closer to the Northern Territory coast and is expected to deepen
further.
There is the possibility of a cyclone developing during the weekend in the southern Arafura Sea however GALES are not expected in coastal areas within the next 24 hours.
Details of TROPICAL LOW
at 3.30 pm CST (4 pm EST): .
Location of centre....... within 90 kilometres of 9.5 degrees South 139.0 degrees East .
Recent movement.......... near stationary. .
Wind gusts near centre... 80 kilometres per hour . Central pressure......... 1002 hectopascals
People between MANINGRIDA and CAPE SHIELD should listen for the next advice which will be issued at 11 pm CST (11.30 pm EST).
Could be interesting next week if it continues its westward movement :)
5th Cat 5 ? we will have to wait and see :)
Jason AkA JuNgLeJiM
Karratha W.A
http://www.kisser.net.au/kevans/weather/
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
043
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:27:10 +0000
From: Greg CURTIS [curtisg at ecn.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Where to after Sydney?
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I think Patrick has hit the nail on the head with his suggestions
regarding the insurance industry - sponsorship for a web site, radar
access etc. The various motoring associations I think are all connected
to insurance companies - they would be a good place to start. How much
are they going to be up for from just this one event?(I bet they have
got venues where we could hold our meetings as well)
It was the sponshorship from an insurance company that got neighbourhhod
watch on its feet. There are many comparasions that you can make btn NHW
and ASWA. Members of the community helping the professionals.
I think an avenue worth exploring.
Greg Curtis
Bardon
Brisbane
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
044
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:54:53 +1000
From: Keith Barnett [weather at ozemail.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I've heard of this theory before..it's coloquially called the 'rain
gush'.
John Woodbridge wrote:
>
> Hi Michael.
>
> Now heres an interesting thing. I have previously observed a sudden CG
> barrage immediately preceeding a heavy hailstorm. In my case it was the
> devastating Turramurra storm back in '91 (??) I observed this from an
> elevated position in St. Leonards. Just before reaching the Turramurra
> area there was a burst of intense CG's apparently focused on the tall
> buildings in Chatswood followed by immediate development of a nice green
> rain foot in the background. But for about 2 mins these towers literally
> looked like one of those Nebula balls...
>
> I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in preciptation
> immediately after a close CG. I theorise that electrical field strength
> plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in association
> with updrafts.
>
> My theory is that a CG burst causes a massive discharging of the storm,
> causing huge drops in the electrical field strength subsequently removing
> forces assisting suspension a large amount of charged rain drops -
> initiating a downburst. Once started this causes a runaway effect due to
> falling rain dragging air which lowers air resistance, etc.. Certainly
> what got Turramurra was a severe microburst strong enough to lift large
> trees out of the ground and deliver them root ball first through roofs of
> houses (media report).
>
> This leads to the interesting speculation that the tall buildings in
> Chatswood were responsible for sudden discharging of the storm as the storm
> front arrived and thus the damage subsequently caused.... Just a theory.
>
> John W.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Thompson [SMTP:michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 9:50
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
>
> I can relate to the CG barage, I done 2 mins of video before it had me
> running for the car. I am not one who runs readily, but when you are under
> tall pine trees on top of hill..... well I figured that I had two options,
> walk into the middle of a open patch and sit down ( tempting ) or retreat
> to
> car.
>
> Anyway at the next ASWA meeting I will bring the tape and you hear the
> CG's.
>
> Michael
>
> >about the possibilities. The sudden lull
> >in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
> >(probably associated with the main updraft)
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
045
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:19:21 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Lightning and rain
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
One thing that I have noticed in many Canberra storms
is that the increase in downpour is often a second or
two after a loud clap of thunder (not the lightning).
This even was so common, and so marked, that when I
was young I used to think that the thunder was so
loud that it "shook" the rain out the clouds :)
ChrisM
At 17:10 16/04/99 , you wrote:
>Michael,
>
>Yes, there is an alternative theory which may be more attractive... At the
>commencement of cell breakdown, i.e., downdraft formation, a large mass of
>highly charged particles (rain/hail) high in the atmosphere start moving
>downward. As they get closer to the ground field strengths naturally
>increase until breakdown occurs. This would also explain why a CG burst
>may occur just before onset of a major preciptation/hail event.
>
>Regards
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Fewings [SMTP:mike at strikeone.com.au]
>Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 14:53
>To: Aussie Weather
>Subject: aus-wx: Lightning and rain
>
>Hi all
>
>John W. wrote
>
>>I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in
>precipitation
>>immediately after a close CG. I theorize that electrical
>field strength
>>plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in
>association
>>with updrafts.
>>snip..
>
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
046
X-Sender: cmaunder at mail.dynamite.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:19:59 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Chris Maunder [cmaunder at dynamite.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Where to after Sydney?
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
At 15:38 16/04/99 , you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Following the Sydney storm, I have been thinking about some positive
>initiatives that ASWA could become involved in. I have a couple of
>suggestions.
Excellent ideas Patrick!
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Maunder Canberra, Australia
Administrator CodeGuru - www.codeguru.com
Technical Consultant Dundas software - www.dundas.com
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
047
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:56:52 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
You may be on to something there because the large hail I got with the
Grafton storm at Yamba was proceeded by a ' barage ' of thick CG's
Interestingly there are theories of lightning and tornadoes along the same
line.
I myself think that massive rain free updrafts are the lightning playground,
but often these massive updrafts a close to a hail shaft ( or tornado )
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: 'aussie-weather at world.std.com' [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Date: Friday, 16 April 1999 13:12
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
>Hi Michael.
>
>Now heres an interesting thing. I have previously observed a sudden CG
>barrage immediately preceeding a heavy hailstorm. In my case it was the
>devastating Turramurra storm back in '91 (??) I observed this from an
>elevated position in St. Leonards. Just before reaching the Turramurra
>area there was a burst of intense CG's apparently focused on the tall
>buildings in Chatswood followed by immediate development of a nice green
>rain foot in the background. But for about 2 mins these towers literally
>looked like one of those Nebula balls...
>
>I have often observed a sharp but temporary increase in preciptation
>immediately after a close CG. I theorise that electrical field strength
>plays a part in holding charged water droplets suspended in association
>with updrafts.
>
>My theory is that a CG burst causes a massive discharging of the storm,
>causing huge drops in the electrical field strength subsequently removing
>forces assisting suspension a large amount of charged rain drops -
>initiating a downburst. Once started this causes a runaway effect due to
>falling rain dragging air which lowers air resistance, etc.. Certainly
>what got Turramurra was a severe microburst strong enough to lift large
>trees out of the ground and deliver them root ball first through roofs of
>houses (media report).
>
>This leads to the interesting speculation that the tall buildings in
>Chatswood were responsible for sudden discharging of the storm as the storm
>front arrived and thus the damage subsequently caused.... Just a theory.
>
>John W.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Thompson [SMTP:michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
>Sent: Friday, 16 April 1999 9:50
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aus-wx: Giant Sydney hail in the freezer
>
>I can relate to the CG barage, I done 2 mins of video before it had me
>running for the car. I am not one who runs readily, but when you are under
>tall pine trees on top of hill..... well I figured that I had two options,
>walk into the middle of a open patch and sit down ( tempting ) or retreat
>to
>car.
>
>Anyway at the next ASWA meeting I will bring the tape and you hear the
>CG's.
>
>Michael
>
>>about the possibilities. The sudden lull
>>in rain/hail then amazing CG barrage
>>(probably associated with the main updraft)
>
>
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
048
X-Sender: astroman at chariot.net.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32)
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:56:08 +0900
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Andrew Wall [astroman at wantree.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Adelaides weather or lack of :)
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi everyone,
Just to let you know that the little square at the bottom of Australia
(commonly known as South Australia) is suffering badly, all this beautiful
weather is really getting to us :)
We have for quite a time now averaged around the mid to low 20's during the
day and experiencing not cold nights, but just right nights around the 12
degree mark. Not unusual for this time of year I guess. So while the
Eastern and Western states are experiencing good sized T/Storms, we can
only sit back and wait our turn. Hopefully when summer turns it's head this
way we can experience what some of you have now.
Looking back in 1998 our season started quite good, infact our first storm
for the 98/99 season (Sept 22nd) was really spectacular, I managed to get a
few shots of this storm but unfortunately most of the lightning was inside
the cloud when it made it's way over the land. On Nov 6th 98 we had another
good storm here and I managed to get a few more strikes on film. This storm
sat over the Gulf of St Vincent for quite some time producing quite a show
for most of the people who were at the beach. When the storm did finally
hit land it disappeared and went East, I guess over the ranges it soon
picked up again.
So I hope at the start of season 99/00 will be just as spectacular.
Good luck to all and wishing you all a safe storm season.
Andrew Wall aka Astroman
S.A. Co-ordinator for the ASWA
ICQ #3983529
P.S. all pics can be viewed at http://lightning.virtualave.net
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:majordomo at world.std.com
with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
message.
-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
| Document: 990416.htm
Updated: 19 April 1999 |
[Australian Severe Weather index] [Copyright Notice] [Email Contacts] |