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Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: Friday, 31 March 2000 |
From Subject
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001 Harald Richter [hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa BSCH Picture Update wall clouds (fwd)
002 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] BSCH Picture Update wall clouds
003 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] BSCH Picture Update wall clouds, BOMs radar????
004 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] BSCH Picture Update wall clouds
005 "Leslie R. Lemon" [lrlemon at compuserve.com] BSCH Picture Update wall clouds (fwd)
006 "Leslie R. Lemon" [lrlemon at compuserve.com] BSCH Picture Update wall clouds
007 Andrew Miskelly [amiskelly at ozemail.com.au] Winter Pattern for Monday
008 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Winter Pattern for Monday
009 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Very high mean minima this March
010 "Dane Newman" [dpn at bigpond.com] Kilsyth Weather Summary March
011 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at flatrate.net.au] I need help (And please don't say 'I know' )
012 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] USA-weather/aussie-weather
013 "Les Crossan" [les.crossan at virgin.net] USA-weather/aussie-weather
014 Jimmy Deguara [jdeguara at ihug.com.au] Last night's meeting - lightning
015 "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au] Coral Sea Action
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001
From: Harald Richter [hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov]
Subject: aus-wx: BSCH Picture Update wall clouds (fwd)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Australian Severe Weather Association)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:45:32 -0600 (CST)
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ASWA:
Ira wrote:
> The best way of identifying wall clouds is to look at where abouts the
> feature is in regards to the rest of the storm. The wall cloud is always
> under the main updraught but in front of the RFD. Obvioulsy Damien would be
> able to tell us this.
Good Point, Ira. It can be quite tough to identify a wall cloud from
a stand-alone image if you can't see some other storm features.
A wall cloud forms by means of reingestion of rain-cooled low-LCL
(LCL = Lifting Condensation Level) air into the updraught.
I try and locate the rain-free storm base under the updraught, then
look for *lowerings* under the rain-free base, then check for streamers
of moist air extending from that lowering TOWARDS A NEARBY RAINCORE.
That thing is then a wall cloud for me. If you're lucky, it rotates, if not,
it does not.
A good example is
http://www.atmos.albany.edu/facstaff/spatz/storms95.html
(second image under the 02 June 1995 header)
where the streamer seems to extend towards the raincore
behing the wall cloud.
It is *very* easy to confuse scud/shelf clouds with wall clouds.
(I've done that more than a few times).
Stand-alone pictures of those two features might look identical
Cheers, Harald
--
---------------------------------------------
Harald Richter
National Severe Storms Laboratory
1313 Halley Circle
Norman, OK 73069
ph.: (405) 366-0430
fax: (405) 579-0808
email: hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov
---------------------------------------------
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002
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:50:07 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: BSCH Picture Update wall clouds
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Yep Les, I really just used RFD loosely just as a reference point to the
storm features. It might be a bit hard to see in HP's but i still believe
it is visible. The first picture i posted was a zoomed out image. The
supercell/wall cloud in this picture is the same one but more zoomed in.
http://www.inflowimages.com/170498-15.jpg
It was a HP supercell and in this pic you can see the scud and cloud tags
to the left of the wall cloud along the RFD line in front of the main
rain/hail core. The pic is taken looking straight NW. Having said that
though i do think there was a mixing this day as the rain/hail core did
contain winds recorded by the BOM of approx 150kph. Most HP's like you said
would contain some sort of mix. Probably areas of NSW, QLD and SA and even
areas further inland from here even would get more classic and LP type
supercells where the wrapping would be easier to see. Also i dont believe
that all HP's have a distinct hook echo or wrapping, i remember the BOM's
radar pics for this supercell and it was more like a kidney bean shape then
anything with no real distinct wrapping. I also remember the images of the
supercell in May 98 that produced and f-0 at dardanup to perths south and
then an f-2 at boyup brook later that night was more sort of kidney like
shaped on the Boms radar. I dont know but maybe the massive cool outflow
from the rain/hail core prevents wrapping? This would be especially true if
the updraught was dieing. Which it wasnt in this case as the storm lasted
for hours afterwards. So that blows that theroy. I wonder why some wrap and
some dont?
Ira Fehlberg
>You are quit right in pointing out the relationship of the wall cloud to
>the main cumulonimbus tower and overshooting dome. Often there is a slope
>to these features from cloud base to overshooting dome. However, in each
>of these excellent examples we can see a region of sunlight and lack of
>precip to the rear. This can be but is not necessarily the RFD. Remember
>that the Rear Flank Downdraft (RFD) is just that, a downdraft (downdraught,
>[S]). Normally, and in the most obvious cases associated with the "Classic
>Supercell", the RFD is an 'escarpment' or evaporation and dissipation of
>low cloud in the cloud base to the rear or right (or north when in front of
>the approaching storm in the southern hemisphere, left or south in the
>northern hemisphere). As one watches, you can often see descending and
>evaporating cloud tags on the edges of the escarpment and this region can
>frequently be seen to elongate as a region of clearing that rotates from
>the rear of the rain free cloud base and wall cloud around this updraft
>base. In fact, the hook echo, when present, is often detected as the
>descending precip within this elongated and wrapping escarpment.
>
>With the HP supercell, the RFD is very frequently not so obvious because
>the region of the RFD is typically filled with very heavy precip (rain and
>hail) and thus one can not see and 'escarpment' of cloud base. Instead the
>region of the RFD is identified by this region of heavy precip which wraps
>from the rear around, and sometimes obscuring the wall cloud and rain free
>cloud base from view.
>
>In all of these cases I don't see the obvious escapement or elongated
>wraping region around the updraft base. You may be correct, but I just
>don't see the more obvious characteristics or signs of the downdraft.
>However, your points were very well taken in noting the location of the
>wall cloud relative to the rest of the storm. Yours was a very good post.
>
>Les
>************************
>Leslie R. Lemon
>Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
>Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
>E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
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003
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:09:58 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: BSCH Picture Update wall clouds, BOMs radar????
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Sorry for another email but i was in bed thinking about it and it just
occured to me, maybe these cells did have the wrapping but the BOMs radar
just doesnt have the quality in picture to pick it up?
Ira Fehlberg
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004
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:06:24 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: BSCH Picture Update wall clouds
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Yep Harald i aggree 100%, the easiest way to identify a wall cloud is to
make sure its in the right spot. Cause if it aint in the right spot it
doesnt matter hey great it looks. Ive even seen gusters that you would
swear were wall clouds. Whenever I get asked do you think this is a wall
cloud? The first thing I always say back is, where is it in regards to the
whole storm cell?
Ira
BTW the original pics posted sure were nice.
>Good Point, Ira. It can be quite tough to identify a wall cloud from
>a stand-alone image if you can't see some other storm features.
>A wall cloud forms by means of reingestion of rain-cooled low-LCL
>(LCL = Lifting Condensation Level) air into the updraught.
>I try and locate the rain-free storm base under the updraught, then
>look for *lowerings* under the rain-free base, then check for streamers
>of moist air extending from that lowering TOWARDS A NEARBY RAINCORE.
>That thing is then a wall cloud for me. If you're lucky, it rotates, if not,
>it does not.
>
>A good example is
>
>http://www.atmos.albany.edu/facstaff/spatz/storms95.html
>
>(second image under the 02 June 1995 header)
>where the streamer seems to extend towards the raincore
>behing the wall cloud.
>
>It is *very* easy to confuse scud/shelf clouds with wall clouds.
>(I've done that more than a few times).
>Stand-alone pictures of those two features might look identical
>
>Cheers, Harald
>
>
>--
>---------------------------------------------
>Harald Richter
>National Severe Storms Laboratory
>1313 Halley Circle
>Norman, OK 73069
>ph.: (405) 366-0430
>fax: (405) 579-0808
>email: hrichter at enterprise.nssl.noaa.gov
>---------------------------------------------
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
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005
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 12:49:05 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" [lrlemon at compuserve.com]
Subject: aus-wx: BSCH Picture Update wall clouds (fwd)
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Cc: "Leslie R. Lemon" <102177.2336 at compuserve.com>
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These are spectacular pics!!! A great post all around!!!
Les
************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
006
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 13:16:26 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" [lrlemon at compuserve.com]
Subject: aus-wx: BSCH Picture Update wall clouds
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
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Ira Fehlberg wrote:
> Yep Les, I really just used RFD loosely just as a reference point to the
> storm features. It might be a bit hard to see in HP's but i still believe
> it is visible. The first picture i posted was a zoomed out image. The
> supercell/wall cloud in this picture is the same one but more zoomed in.
> http://www.inflowimages.com/170498-15.jpg
> It was a HP supercell and in this pic you can see the scud and cloud tags
> to the left of the wall cloud along the RFD line in front of the main
> rain/hail core. The pic is taken looking straight NW. Having said that
> though i do think there was a mixing this day as the rain/hail core did
> contain winds recorded by the BOM of approx 150kph. Most HP's like you
said
> would contain some sort of mix. Probably areas of NSW, QLD and SA and
even
> areas further inland from here even would get more classic and LP type
> supercells where the wrapping would be easier to see. Also i dont believe
> that all HP's have a distinct hook echo or wrapping, i remember the BOM's
> radar pics for this supercell and it was more like a kidney bean shape
then
> anything with no real distinct wrapping. I also remember the images of
the
> supercell in May 98 that produced and f-0 at dardanup to perths south and
> then an f-2 at boyup brook later that night was more sort of kidney like
> shaped on the Boms radar. I dont know but maybe the massive cool outflow
> from the rain/hail core prevents wrapping? This would be especially true
if
> the updraught was dieing. Which it wasnt in this case as the storm lasted
> for hours afterwards. So that blows that theroy. I wonder why some wrap
and
> some dont?
Excellent point Ira! I fully agree! An example of an HP without
significant wrapping being detected can be seen in this storm from the
Dallas/FTW outbreak (see the first reflectivity image after the loop):
.
BTW, the wrapping occurs during the low-level and "spin-up" and occlusion
process of the mesocyclone. In the case of the HP I believe that in most
cases the wrapping does occur (and is seen visually as the rain curtains
envellop the wall cloud) but the aspect ration of the radar sample volume
vs the wrapping rain curtain is such that it can not be resolved by most
radars when one considers the radar beam width and distance to the storm.
Les
************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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007
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:44:37 +1000
From: Andrew Miskelly [amiskelly at ozemail.com.au]
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To: Aussie Weather [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Winter Pattern for Monday
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Hi all,
The four day prognostic chart shows an interesting pattern for early
next week, possibly brining the first taste of winter for this year. Two
cold fronts with some nice steep SW - NE isobars look as if they might
penetrate further north than just the bottom of Tassie.
See what happens.
Andrew.
--
Andrew Miskelly
Illawarra/Southern Tablelands, NSW
amiskelly at ozemail.com.au
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008
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Winter Pattern for Monday
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:13:30 +1000 (EST)
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>
> Hi all,
>
> The four day prognostic chart shows an interesting pattern for early
> next week, possibly brining the first taste of winter for this year. Two
> cold fronts with some nice steep SW - NE isobars look as if they might
> penetrate further north than just the bottom of Tassie.
>
> See what happens.
>
> Andrew.
>
The models have been jumping around a bit. Yesterday's runs had a very
marked cold outbreak - the 0000 GASP run had thicknesses of 530 near
Melbourne, which would mean snow down to 500-600 metres - but GASP
has backed off a bit today, and the UKMO develops a cutoff and keeps
the coldest air further west. The new ECMWF, which has been the
most consistent backer of a cold outbreak, hasn't come through yet.
Blair Trewin
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009
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Very high mean minima this March
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:15:46 +1000 (EST)
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> Updates as of this morning, with 1 day remaining:
>
> Melbourne 15.8
> Canberra 13.7
> Sydney 19.0
>
> Canberra needs around 10 to equal the record, 13 to break it. Current
> forecast for tonight is 9, so they may not quite make it.
It ended up being 6, so the record remains intact.
> One record that will certainly go comes from WA, which has had another
> very cool month. Kalgoorlie's mean max for the month so far is 24.0,
> 5.7 below average and 2.4 below the existing record of 26.4, set in
> 1975 and 1984 - quite an impressive margin given the 103-year length
> of record! (the first 50 are from the post office, but the small
> difference between the post office and airport during the 11 years
> of overlap suggests that nothing pre-1942 was below the 1984 mark).
> (For this record to remain intact, it would have to average 60 over
> the last two days of the month!),
25 yesterday, so a record would only be averted if it reaches 97
today. I don't think that's going to happen....
Blair Trewin
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
010
From: "Dane Newman" [dpn at bigpond.com]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Kilsyth Weather Summary March
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:13:57 +1000
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- Hi all here is my weather summary for Kilsyth
(outer eastern suburbs Melbourne) for March.
- Ave Max 26.0c (24.0c)
- Ave Min 13.8c (12.9c)
- Rainfall 31.8mm
(58.9mm)
- Warmest Day 35.7c (2nd)
- Coolest Day 18.0c (23rd)
- Warmest Night 23.2c (18th)
- Coolest Night 6.5c
(25th)
- Days of Thunder 0 (2.0)
- Days of Hail 0
- Days of Fog
1
- Long term averages in Brackets. Dane
Newman
011
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:16:47 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at flatrate.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Australian Weather Mailing List [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: I need help (And please don't say 'I know' )
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all,
Well - after an extremely boring tutorial at uni today, I decided to
fiddle around with drawing functions... I was drawing a (version of
the) cosine function, and decided it looked like a tornado - I then
added the wall cloud, the meso, and eventually the entire storm. I was
quite pleased with my work until my tutor came over to see what I was
doing (other than not participating in the tute), and asked "What are
you trying to acomplish here?" Well - as if anyone would ask that, I
thought it was quite obvious, and normal My response was "I'm
drawing maths functions" My tutor then gave me an extremely surprised
look and said "umm, ok" and wandered back off and never talked to me or
came near me for the entire tute after that!
SDS again...
Anthony Cornelius
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012
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: USA-weather/aussie-weather
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:07:47 +1000
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Hi
If you want Californian style weather without Earthquakes you can't go past
Western Australia near Perth. It is much wetter than San Francisco and more
like LA in temperatures, but it does have the dry summer-wet winter like
California.
There are only about 18 million people in Australia as opposed to over 220
million in the USA, the size of the two countries is similar.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: winnie w tong [wtong02 at ccsf.cc.ca.us]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2000 10:52
Subject: aus-wx: USA-weather/aussie-weather
> Hi anybody,
> I have been lived in California almost 20 years. It is one of the states
> of Unites States. I know that in summer is not too hot and in winner is
not
> too cold. It is very nice weather all year, but it has a problem that
there
> is a earthquake happened in the Bayarea, San Francisco and other cities
> around the westcoast.
> I think that there are a lot of people living in Australia. I have never
> been there for traveling. I think that there are very nice places and nice
> weather to live.
> Can you tell me about the country?
> Thank You!
>
>
> \ ) ( /
> \ ) ( /
> \ ) ( /
> '"'"'
> ( )
> ( 0 0 )
> ( () )
> -_--_-
> ----**88**-------------------- -- ----------------8888******
> " My Lovely Pet "
> Winnie Tong
> Free-lance Photographer
> (510)587-3361
> wtong02 at ccsf.cc.ca.us
> ---------------------- O:-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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013
From: "Les Crossan" [les.crossan at virgin.net]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: USA-weather/aussie-weather
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:22:33 +0100
Organization: Cosmic EuroCon - note all times are always GMT
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----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Thompson [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: USA-weather/aussie-weather
> Hi
>
> If you want Californian style weather without Earthquakes you can't go
past
> Western Australia near Perth. It is much wetter than San Francisco and
more
> like LA in temperatures, but it does have the dry summer-wet winter like
> California
If you want Califonian style weather with Plains type storms you sure cannot
beat WA, certainly. Australia has a population of 18 million in an Uncle Sam
sized continent. To put it into perspective, Scotland has six million and
that can fit into WA / Calif many times over!
Just my hapenny / cents worth.
Les
------------------------------------------------------
Les Crossan
Wallsend, Tyne & Wear, UK 54-59N 01-30W
UK Storm Chaser / Severe Weather Enthusiast
http://freespace.virgin.net/les.crossan/index.htm
Melbourne Storm Chasers (MSC) - Victoria, AUS
http://www.rubix.net.au/~cadence/
Australian Severe Weather Association (ASWA) - AUS
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
Tornado and Storm Research Organisation (TORRO) - UK
Thunderstorm Census Organisation (TCO) - UK
http://www.torro.org.uk/
Email: les.NOSPAMcrossan at virgin.net (remove NOSPAM)
ICQ: 17296776
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
014
X-Sender: jdeguara at pop.ihug.com.au
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Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:11:29 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jdeguara at ihug.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Last night's meeting - lightning
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi everyone,
Last night, as most of you would know by now, was the meeting involving the
tour of Weather 21 and also a presentation by Ken Ticehurst of the
lightning Kattron data. It was meant to be a meeting with a difference in
terms of two aspects: it was a first in terms of a meeting on lightning and
also a first meeting with two parts within meeting.
Well, I must say I really was looking forward to the meeting. And was
really enthused the whole time. Mark Hardy, who has been present on this
list for some time, took us through a tour of the whole Weather 21 complex
and how it works. I found it very fascinating how presentations are made
and important the team works together on putting together forecasts. Mark
and the team seem to be looking for better ways of presenting weather to
the various clients. All I can say, well done Weather 21.
Ken then gave his presentation on the KAttron lightning network. His talk
focused on the history of lightning detection from the early 1900's to the
present. It concentrated on the types of techniques adopted over the years
to pinpoint with the least amount of sensors required for accurate
lightning detection. He then went on to discuss how his network has changed
over the years particularly with the use of better communications and also
GPS systems to get more accurate positions of where lightning strikes
occur. His discussion dwelled into some of the mathematical concepts used
to locate points of intersection. I found this part quite interesting.
In the end he made comparisons of other "cheaper" networks as compared to
Kattron. Obviously nothing compares. He also dwelled into a couple of case
studies of storms eg 19th March 2000 (the day we chased the Hunter and
Mudgee copped it) He concentrated though more on the local are type of
lightning network around the Sydney Harbour Bridge used for safety of tours
and workmen.
All who attended thoroughly enjoyed the tour and the presentation. I would
like to take the opportunity to thank all ASWA members who turned up in
force outnumbering the AMOS Weatherwatch group by about 4 to 1!! I was kept
busy talking to Don White and Mark Hardy but occasionally browsed around to
see that everyone were getting along just fine with good interaction
between ASWA and AMOS members.
Hope this support is continued.
For those who asked for some notes, I am going to try and ask for some
copies of the notes from Ken and perhaps some information from Mark. But in
the meanwhile, I hope that this information will suffice. This was written
tonight as I didn't take notes. I had tried to get copies of the notes
instead....but forgot to ask then...
Jimmy Deguara
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-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
015
From: "James Chambers" [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au]
To: "aus-wx" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Coral Sea Action
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:50:00 +1000
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Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all
Tonight there's a very nice looking tropical low in the Central Coral Sea.
It's quite large in size (bigger than TC Rona or Steve ever was) and it has
good outflow and there doesn't appear to be a large amount of shear. Of
course, it could all suddenly die in a heap and fool me completely - we'll
see! I just checked NGP and I don't believe what it shows - it only has the
low at 1008hpa and not really doing anything apart from moving west.
By the way, if this low develops into a TC what will it be called? I've got
info that says it'll be called "Tessi" but Jacob from Perth (sorry to
incriminate you!) has info that it'll be called "Tania".
It'll be worth watching anyway.
Regards
James Chambers
The Brisbane & SE Qld Storm Site
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~jamestorm/bristorm.html
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| Document: 000331.htm
Updated: 03 June 2000 |
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