X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Records.
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:20:44 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi'

A lot of these I've seen before... but a 1.02 kg. hailstone???
Are you sure that place wasn't under a 747 flight path? :))

Kevin Phyland.

>From: "paulmoss" 
>To: 
>Subject: aussie-weather: Records.
>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:44:50 +1100
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0
>X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>While we are all talking records heres some for you:
>
>Highest average annual total rainfall figure is 11874.5 mm (467 1/2 
inches)
>at Mawsynram in India
>
>Highest 24 hr total is 1869.9mm (73 1/2 inches) on th 15 - 16.3.52 at
>Chilaos on the Island of La Renuion off the South Affrican  Coast.
>
>Largest ahilstone was 1.02 kg at Bangladesh on the 14.4.86
>
>Greatest temp change in 1 day is 55.6c going from 6.7c to -49 c at 
Browning
>Montana USA.
>
>Greatest ever annual measured rainfall was at Cherrapunji in India - it 
was
>a massive 26, 461.7mm  from 1.8.1860 - 31.7.1861
>
>The island of La Reunion also holds the records for the 6hr, 12hr, 
18hr, and
>1 hr falls as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Highest Rainfall
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:27:44 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hey Anthony et al...

Does anyone remember the (probably apocryphal) reported fall of 1.23 
inches in a minute in the US somewhere (where escapes me!!)
By the way... wouldn't you need a pluviometer or some serious good 
measuring equipment to measure explosive falls like that?

Kevin Phyland.

>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:51:56 +1100
>From: Anthony Cornelius 
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Highest Rainfall
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>References: <3.0.32.19981031010335.007660c8 at mail.braenet.com.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>Hi Matt,
>
>This data may be a few years out of date, as this was printed in the
>early to mid 90's, but the greatest rainfall in one year was 26,471mm.
>in August 1860 to July 1861.  This was recorded in Cherrapunji, India.
>
>Australia's greatest one year rainfall was 11,251 in 1979, recorded in
>Belleden Ker, QLD.
>
>Although this does seem a lot, how about 38mm in one minute, recorded 
at
>Barot, Gaundeloupe in 1970!?  That's a rate of 2280mm an hour!  Of
>though it didn't rain for that long of course.
>
>Anthony
>
>Matt Smith wrote:
>> 
>> interesting fact!!! wow thats amost 12 metres of water a year..
>> wonder what the highest ever rainfall was in a year!! :)
>> Matt
>> 
>> At 09:53 PM 10/30/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> >Did you know that the wettest place in the world is  Mawsynram in 
India,
>> >where on average there is 11,873mm of rain each year.
>> >Holy shit ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:36:08 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi every1

Jee, talk about weird stuff!!
My father (a cow cockie) used to say that you'd never get a rain on a 
full moon!
Then I asked him, "Isn't a full moon everywhere on Earth on the same 
day?"   
So logically....
More seriously, there's such a thing as persistence forecasting...

Kevin P.

>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:11:08 +1100
>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides
>From: "Mark Hardy" 
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>JImmy
>
>These things shouldn't be too hard to prove given a good enough data 
record.
>A statistical analysis will pretty quickly show if any correlations are
>based on chance or not. I wonder if anybody has done such an analysis
>correlating lunar cycles with certain weather events.
>
>I would be interested to know what weather events farmers believe are 
tied
>into lunar cycles.?
>
>Mark
>----------
>>From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides
>>Date: Sat, Oct 31, 1998, 8:25 AM
>>
>
>>I am interested in such an effect as for years I have tried to come to 
terms
>>on how to link lunar effects on the weather which farmers go by. This 
is an
>>interesting observation.
>>
>>The more I have tried to argue against the farmers by finding 
evidence, I
>>have often come to a hault. I can see that certain situations are 
true.
>>
>>Jimmy Deguara from Schofields
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Hardy 
>>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
>>Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 10:59 AM
>>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides
>>
>>
>>>It is well known that weather can affect tides - particularly 
pressure and
>>>wind. Whether tides can affect weather...well.. that seems to be up 
for
>>>debate. To my knowledge there is not much scientific literature 
around on
>>>this topic. Some of you AMOS guys would know better though. However, 
I have
>>>seen a few of cases of winds affected by tides and also received
>>>considerable anecdotal evidence. Particularly relating tides and 
strengths
>>>of seas breezes. To my knowledge there are several places around the
>>country
>>>where winds do "appear" to be affected by tides. By affected - I 
don't mean
>>>an "apparent wind" effect which you may get in an estuary, but a real
>>change
>>>in wind.
>>>
>>>The case which I have personally witnessed many times is on the south 
coast
>>>of NSW. If there is a southwesterly blowing through Bass Strait, 
quite
>>often
>>>this will push a sea breezy kind of southeasterly onto the NSW South 
Coast
>>>(Eden to Moruya). The strength of this southeasterly really does 
appear to
>>>be dependent on the tides. If the tide is rising the southeasterly 
(on the
>>>average) tends to be stronger than if the tide is falling. Whether 
this
>>>effect is caused by local temperature and current variations or is a
>>broader
>>>scale tidal influence - I have no idea. However, it has fascinated me 
for
>>>quite a few years.
>>>
>>>I have heard of wind/tidal effects occurring in other parts of the
>>country -
>>>local fishermen and sailors everywhere will often have their own 
theories.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>>----------
>>>>From: "Bodie" 
>>>>To: 
>>>>Subject: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides
>>>>Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:10
>>>>
>>>
>>>>I was wondering if there is any link between Tides and the weather??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:54:02 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hey Paul et al.,

I can remember the last time it snowed in Bendigo. (May 31, 1977). I was 
still in school and it was really (~4 C) cold at 11 a.m. My question is, 
how come it didn't melt while the temperature was above zero?

KP.

>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:13:40 +1100 (EST)
>From: Paul Graham 
>To: Aussie Weather 
>Subject: aussie-weather: NT Snow  + Sydney Snow...
>Message-Id: 

>Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
>Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Ben Tichborne wrote:  
>>  Snow to 200 metres on the Flinders in mid/late October  - that 
sounds
>> unbelievable. Do you have any more details on that cold snap?. The 
BOM       
>
>Hi Ben and everyone,
>	According to my Bureau of Meteorology Annual Climate Summary for
>1997, there were unofficial reports of snow at Uluru (Ayre's Rock) in 
the
>Northern Territory in July.
>	There have also been some unusual cases of snow here in Sydney
>although this is fairly rare.  I remember back in 1986 (I think) on a 
July
>or August afternoon with strong SW winds, snow began to fall at around 
5pm
>and lasted for around 5 minutes (pity I don't have any photos to show).
>The temperature was above freezing so the cloud type had a lot to do 
with
>it I think.  From memory it was a tall cumulus cell that drifted over. 
>The freezing level was probably fairly low so it wouldn't have required
>much of an updraught for snow and ice to form. The downdraughts were
>probably sufficiently cold to maintain the snow to the surface (perhaps
>any katabatic warming is offset by sublimation and evaporation - the
>clouds weren't exceptionally high either, so it might not have mattered
>much anyway). 
>	- Paul G.
> 
>---------------------------- 
>Paul Graham 
>m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
>----------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:06:03 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi,
Re snow and weird stuff...
What about Arica (in the Atacama desert I think!)
Can anyone tell me about the topography there? I mean, talk about dry!
Apparently they offered a dock to the Ark! :-}}

>From: "Michael Thompson" 
>To: 
>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow  + Sydney Snow...
>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:54:22 +1100
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
>X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>Altitude can overcome most things, and with both cases altitude is 
playing
>the major role. The Saharan fall would have most probably been on the
>highest parts of the AHaggor or the Tibesti mountains, depending on 
which
>atlas you look at there are peaks in the 3000 - 4000m range. I have 
seen the
>Ahaggor on TV and they are impressive. Have you ever seen the rock 
paintings
>of all familar african animals that have long since vanished from the
>Sahara, these are in theis range. Also one of David Attenboroughs TV 
shows
>open /closes with picture of a gaint  cypress " in the middle of the
>Sahara", again the Ahaggar. It's almost cheating as its hardly the sand 
dune
>desert. With mountains that high the rainfall during the last ice age 
must
>have been much higher. Even today there are some springs an small 
streams
>from the Ahaggor.
>
>With Ulura the altitude isn't as high ( 867m ) but higher than most
>Australia's realise, as it comes off a moderate plateau to begin with.
>
>Regards
>Michael
>
>>> According to my Bureau of Meteorology Annual Climate Summary for
>>> 1997, there were unofficial reports of snow at Uluru (Ayre's Rock) 
in the
>>> Northern Territory in July.
>>
>> I saw on NZ TV in July 1997 shots of tourists at the base of Uluru, 
with
>>light snow/sleet falling, and it looked like there was a very light 
dusting
>>of snow on the ground. I've never heard of snow in the Aussie outback
>>before, but I know that there have been freak falls in the Sahara, 
which is
>>in a similar climate zone.
>> I think the rarity of snow in subtropical/desert areas is due to the 
fact
>>that polar outbreaks have usually run out of moisture by the time they 
have
>>reached these areas. Freak snowfalls therefore can only occur if there 
is a
>>local low pressure system producing the moisture while the very cold
>>airflow is blowing at the same time. An example of that might be the 
storm
>>that brought snow to to the central Queensland highlands in July 1965.
>>
>>> There have also been some unusual cases of snow here in Sydney
>>> although this is fairly rare.  I remember back in 1986 (I think) on 
a
>>July
>>> or August afternoon with strong SW winds, snow began to fall at 
around
>>5pm
>>> and lasted for around 5 minutes (pity I don't have any photos to 
show).
>>> The temperature was above freezing so the cloud type had a lot to do 
with
>>> it I think.  From memory it was a tall cumulus cell that drifted 
over.
>>> The freezing level was probably fairly low so it wouldn't have 
required
>>> much of an updraught for snow and ice to form. The downdraughts were
>>> probably sufficiently cold to maintain the snow to the surface 
(perhaps
>>> any katabatic warming is offset by sublimation and evaporation - the
>>> clouds weren't exceptionally high either, so it might not have 
mattered
>>> much anyway).
>>
>> Sounds like Sydney gets snow about as often as Auckland does - ie 
very
>>rarely. I think snow has settled in central Auckland only once this 
century
>>(1939), and even then it only dusted the higher volcanic hills of the 
city
>>(about 200 metres above sea-level).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:12:23 GMT
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by penman.es.mq.edu.au id BAA29829

On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:54:02 PST, "Kevin Phyland"
 wrote:

>Hey Paul et al.,
>
>I can remember the last time it snowed in Bendigo. (May 31, 1977). I was 
>still in school and it was really (~4 C) cold at 11 a.m. My question is, 
>how come it didn't melt while the temperature was above zero?
>
Snow will usually fall with the surface temperature (i.e. about 1
metre above ground level) up to around 2 degrees C. That's because, if
the atmosphere is behaving normally, the temperature will be 0 only
100 to 200 metres higher up, and the snow, even though it's drifting
down fairly slowly, doesn't have time to melt during its fall. I live
at Blackheath in the Blue Mountains, and I've seen it snow with the
temp as high as 2.5C; depending on the temperature structure above,
snow could conceivably fall to ground level with a temperature even
higher.


-- 
Laurier Williams
Australian Weather Links and News
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:33:17 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Laurier,

Well actually, as I recall I was on the second floor and it didn't 
settle on the ground. But I am sure that it wasn't that close to 
freezing!

Kevin.

>From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams)
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:12:23 GMT
>Message-Id: <363b19f5.61002220 at mail.lisp.com.au>
>References: <19981031135405.6740.qmail at hotmail.com>
>In-Reply-To: <19981031135405.6740.qmail at hotmail.com>
>X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:54:02 PST, "Kevin Phyland"
> wrote:
>
>>Hey Paul et al.,
>>
>>I can remember the last time it snowed in Bendigo. (May 31, 1977). I 
was=
>=20
>>still in school and it was really (~4 C) cold at 11 a.m. My question 
is,=
>=20
>>how come it didn't melt while the temperature was above zero?
>>
>Snow will usually fall with the surface temperature (i.e. about 1
>metre above ground level) up to around 2 degrees C. That's because, if
>the atmosphere is behaving normally, the temperature will be 0 only
>100 to 200 metres higher up, and the snow, even though it's drifting
>down fairly slowly, doesn't have time to melt during its fall. I live
>at Blackheath in the Blue Mountains, and I've seen it snow with the
>temp as high as 2.5C; depending on the temperature structure above,
>snow could conceivably fall to ground level with a temperature even
>higher.
>
>
>--=20
>Laurier Williams
>Australian Weather Links and News
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.13.168.7]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:45:35 PST
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

L.,

Yeah, you're probably right.
"In memory yet green!"

K.

P.S.
Um,.. I was actually directly underneath a rotating cloud (in a Cb) in 
March 1982 (near Ballarat, I looked out the car window and pointed it 
out to my co-passengers, who laughed for a minute, then freaked when the 
car started to move contrary to the direction it was being driven!) 
which apparently produced a funnel and damage in the town. I've followed 
storms like this for a while and I was wondering how often a damaging 
storm like that (couldn't have been more than 17 - 18 C!) could occur in 
autumn!

Kevin Phyland.

>From: wbc at ozemail.com.au (Laurier Williams)
>To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:12:23 GMT
>Message-Id: <363b19f5.61002220 at mail.lisp.com.au>
>References: <19981031135405.6740.qmail at hotmail.com>
>In-Reply-To: <19981031135405.6740.qmail at hotmail.com>
>X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>
>On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:54:02 PST, "Kevin Phyland"
> wrote:
>
>>Hey Paul et al.,
>>
>>I can remember the last time it snowed in Bendigo. (May 31, 1977). I 
was=
>=20
>>still in school and it was really (~4 C) cold at 11 a.m. My question 
is,=
>=20
>>how come it didn't melt while the temperature was above zero?
>>
>Snow will usually fall with the surface temperature (i.e. about 1
>metre above ground level) up to around 2 degrees C. That's because, if
>the atmosphere is behaving normally, the temperature will be 0 only
>100 to 200 metres higher up, and the snow, even though it's drifting
>down fairly slowly, doesn't have time to melt during its fall. I live
>at Blackheath in the Blue Mountains, and I've seen it snow with the
>temp as high as 2.5C; depending on the temperature structure above,
>snow could conceivably fall to ground level with a temperature even
>higher.
>
>
>--=20
>Laurier Williams
>Australian Weather Links and News
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Thompson" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow  + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:54:22 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Altitude can overcome most things, and with both cases altitude is playing
the major role. The Saharan fall would have most probably been on the
highest parts of the AHaggor or the Tibesti mountains, depending on which
atlas you look at there are peaks in the 3000 - 4000m range. I have seen the
Ahaggor on TV and they are impressive. Have you ever seen the rock paintings
of all familar african animals that have long since vanished from the
Sahara, these are in theis range. Also one of David Attenboroughs TV shows
open /closes with picture of a gaint  cypress " in the middle of the
Sahara", again the Ahaggar. It's almost cheating as its hardly the sand dune
desert. With mountains that high the rainfall during the last ice age must
have been much higher. Even today there are some springs an small streams
from the Ahaggor.

With Ulura the altitude isn't as high ( 867m ) but higher than most
Australia's realise, as it comes off a moderate plateau to begin with.

Regards
Michael

>> According to my Bureau of Meteorology Annual Climate Summary for
>> 1997, there were unofficial reports of snow at Uluru (Ayre's Rock) in the
>> Northern Territory in July.
>
> I saw on NZ TV in July 1997 shots of tourists at the base of Uluru, with
>light snow/sleet falling, and it looked like there was a very light dusting
>of snow on the ground. I've never heard of snow in the Aussie outback
>before, but I know that there have been freak falls in the Sahara, which is
>in a similar climate zone.
> I think the rarity of snow in subtropical/desert areas is due to the fact
>that polar outbreaks have usually run out of moisture by the time they have
>reached these areas. Freak snowfalls therefore can only occur if there is a
>local low pressure system producing the moisture while the very cold
>airflow is blowing at the same time. An example of that might be the storm
>that brought snow to to the central Queensland highlands in July 1965.
>
>> There have also been some unusual cases of snow here in Sydney
>> although this is fairly rare.  I remember back in 1986 (I think) on a
>July
>> or August afternoon with strong SW winds, snow began to fall at around
>5pm
>> and lasted for around 5 minutes (pity I don't have any photos to show).
>> The temperature was above freezing so the cloud type had a lot to do with
>> it I think.  From memory it was a tall cumulus cell that drifted over.
>> The freezing level was probably fairly low so it wouldn't have required
>> much of an updraught for snow and ice to form. The downdraughts were
>> probably sufficiently cold to maintain the snow to the surface (perhaps
>> any katabatic warming is offset by sublimation and evaporation - the
>> clouds weren't exceptionally high either, so it might not have mattered
>> much anyway).
>
> Sounds like Sydney gets snow about as often as Auckland does - ie very
>rarely. I think snow has settled in central Auckland only once this century
>(1939), and even then it only dusted the higher volcanic hills of the city
>(about 200 metres above sea-level).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jimmy Deguara" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:37:16 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

What people like your father do not realise is that a full moon occurs at
certain times, not just when they see it. When they see it in full, then it
is probable that the night is clear.

Jimmy Deguara

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Phyland 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Weather and Tides


>Hi every1
>
>Jee, talk about weird stuff!!
>My father (a cow cockie) used to say that you'd never get a rain on a
>full moon!
>Then I asked him, "Isn't a full moon everywhere on Earth on the same
>day?"
>So logically....
>More seriously, there's such a thing as persistence forecasting...
>
>Kevin P.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 07:43:59 +1100
From: Anthony Cornelius 
To: Australian Weather Mailing List 
Subject: aussie-weather: "Death Ridge from Hell" Returns??
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all,

Well - if any of you have seen the models, it appears that we may have a
"blocking high situation" on our hands :-(  That ECL will sit to the ESE
of the high, and all models are predicting it to move *very* slowly. 
The only one that gives any hope is one of the MRF models, with it
almost off the coast by Friday and a trough coming through.  AVN only
goes to +72hrs, but doesn't show the high moving much.  NGP shows a
slightly more grim situation with a trough not coming through Brisbane
(slightly ealier for southern cities) until Sat/Sun.

On a slightly higher note, perhaps this will work the other way - that
the trough will "stick around" for a few days.  Also, +144hr NGP shows a
1002hPA low to the NW of the NT, but no other model supports it.

Anthony from Brisbane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:40:26 +0800
From: Michael Fewings 
Organization: Edith Cowan Uni
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Exceptionally hot in WA
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

You would all love to know that this morning (9.30)  it is 17C and drizzling
with 77% humidity
and a SW'ly
After yesterday it is a bit hard to deal with. And I believe I might put in a
claim for storm less town of Australia. Last one 28th August 1998 (Admittedly
it was a good one).  It has not even  been worth a chase since there has been
nothing to chase.
I feel optimistic though and the next trough will deliver the goods (Fingers
crossed as well!)
Mike, Perth

Jacob wrote:

> Any thundery showers that have developed are all east of the trough,
> Kalgorlie is expecting 37C tomorrow (today now).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 09:48:41 +0800
From: Michael Fewings 
Organization: Edith Cowan Uni
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Aussie Weather 
Subject: aussie-weather: ICQ No
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Mike from Perth here,

My ICQ no is 12930519

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bodie" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: Tropical Cyclones
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:19:30 -0800
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Does anyone know where i can access detailed information on tropical
cyclones in the southern hemisphere , besides AustralianServereWeather.com??

Any help would be appreciated

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:39:38 +1100 (EST)
From: Paul Graham 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Cool Season Tornadoes...
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Kevin Phyland wrote:
> Um,.. I was actually directly underneath a rotating cloud (in a Cb) in 
> March 1982 (near Ballarat, I looked out the car window and pointed it 
> out to my co-passengers, who laughed for a minute, then freaked when the 
> car started to move contrary to the direction it was being driven!) 
> which apparently produced a funnel and damage in the town. I've followed 
> storms like this for a while and I was wondering how often a damaging 
> storm like that (couldn't have been more than 17 - 18 C!) could occur in 
> autumn!

Cool season tornadoes are not uncommon in parts of southern Australia (the
Bureau of Meteorology has been doing a lot of research into this
phenomenon in recent years).  I believe that they are particularly common
in parts of SW Australia associated with strong cold fronts.  Tornadic
storms can develop in low convective energy situations when there is
sufficient low level wind shear and convergence.  Wind shear helps to
start the tornadic circulation.  Apparently, the earliest severe storm for
Victoria that the Bureau has on record is of a tornadic storm that
occurred on 1st, July, 1861 near Chetwynd.  This thunderstorm was
accompanied by "terrific lightning" and a tornado which: "tore trees from
the ground, demolished huts and lifted 9 people to treetop level, killing
one" (Bureau of Meteorology, Climate of Australia: Victoria). 

- Paul G. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Thompson" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: "Death Ridge from Hell" Returns??
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:56:14 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

I must admit that it has been a very poor season so far along the coast,
take out the Brisbane storm and we have virtually nothing.

We have had only 2 thunder days in Wollongong this spring, both "only justs"

Regards
Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Cornelius 
To: Australian Weather Mailing List 
Date: Sunday, 1 November 1998 8:42
Subject: aussie-weather: "Death Ridge from Hell" Returns??


>Hi all,
>
>Well - if any of you have seen the models, it appears that we may have a
>"blocking high situation" on our hands :-(  That ECL will sit to the ESE
>of the high, and all models are predicting it to move *very* slowly.
>The only one that gives any hope is one of the MRF models, with it
>almost off the coast by Friday and a trough coming through.  AVN only
>goes to +72hrs, but doesn't show the high moving much.  NGP shows a
>slightly more grim situation with a trough not coming through Brisbane
>(slightly ealier for southern cities) until Sat/Sun.
>
>On a slightly higher note, perhaps this will work the other way - that
>the trough will "stick around" for a few days.  Also, +144hr NGP shows a
>1002hPA low to the NW of the NT, but no other model supports it.
>
>Anthony from Brisbane

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Thompson" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:52:35 +1100
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Coastal plain, but narrow, very cold Humbolt current offshore, solid
inversion along coast stops convection.

Travel only 50-60 kms inland and up into to Andes and rainfall increases.
The northern parts of this desert can get rains in El Nino years, in fact it
is not even welcomed as the rains mean warm currents and no fish.


Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Phyland 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
Date: Sunday, 1 November 1998 1:06
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow + Sydney Snow...


>Hi,
>Re snow and weird stuff...
>What about Arica (in the Atacama desert I think!)
>Can anyone tell me about the topography there? I mean, talk about dry!
>Apparently they offered a dock to the Ark! :-}}
>
>>From aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com Sat Oct 31 02:53:23 1998
>>Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0)
>> id FAA12690; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:50:13 -0500 (EST)
>>Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0)
>> id FAA12684; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:50:10 -0500 (EST)
>>Received: from fep2.mail.ozemail.net by world.std.com
>(TheWorld/Spike-2.0)
>> id AA13700; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:50:05 -0500
>>Received: from michaelt (slwol52p37.ozemail.com.au [203.108.231.101])
>by fep2.mail.ozemail.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15566 for
>; Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:50:02 +1100 (EST)
>>Message-Id: <002e01be04bc$f6617f20$65e76ccb at michaelt.ozemail>
>>From: "Michael Thompson" 
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: aussie-weather: NT Snow  + Sydney Snow...
>>Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:54:22 +1100
>>X-Priority: 3
>>X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
>>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1
>>X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
>>Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
>>Precedence: list
>>Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>>
>>Altitude can overcome most things, and with both cases altitude is
>playing
>>the major role. The Saharan fall would have most probably been on the
>>highest parts of the AHaggor or the Tibesti mountains, depending on
>which
>>atlas you look at there are peaks in the 3000 - 4000m range. I have
>seen the
>>Ahaggor on TV and they are impressive. Have you ever seen the rock
>paintings
>>of all familar african animals that have long since vanished from the
>>Sahara, these are in theis range. Also one of David Attenboroughs TV
>shows
>>open /closes with picture of a gaint  cypress " in the middle of the
>>Sahara", again the Ahaggar. It's almost cheating as its hardly the sand
>dune
>>desert. With mountains that high the rainfall during the last ice age
>must
>>have been much higher. Even today there are some springs an small
>streams
>>from the Ahaggor.
>>
>>With Ulura the altitude isn't as high ( 867m ) but higher than most
>>Australia's realise, as it comes off a moderate plateau to begin with.
>>
>>Regards
>>Michael
>>
>>>> According to my Bureau of Meteorology Annual Climate Summary for
>>>> 1997, there were unofficial reports of snow at Uluru (Ayre's Rock)
>in the
>>>> Northern Territory in July.
>>>
>>> I saw on NZ TV in July 1997 shots of tourists at the base of Uluru,
>with
>>>light snow/sleet falling, and it looked like there was a very light
>dusting
>>>of snow on the ground. I've never heard of snow in the Aussie outback
>>>before, but I know that there have been freak falls in the Sahara,
>which is
>>>in a similar climate zone.
>>> I think the rarity of snow in subtropical/desert areas is due to the
>fact
>>>that polar outbreaks have usually run out of moisture by the time they
>have
>>>reached these areas. Freak snowfalls therefore can only occur if there
>is a
>>>local low pressure system producing the moisture while the very cold
>>>airflow is blowing at the same time. An example of that might be the
>storm
>>>that brought snow to to the central Queensland highlands in July 1965.
>>>
>>>> There have also been some unusual cases of snow here in Sydney
>>>> although this is fairly rare.  I remember back in 1986 (I think) on
>a
>>>July
>>>> or August afternoon with strong SW winds, snow began to fall at
>around
>>>5pm
>>>> and lasted for around 5 minutes (pity I don't have any photos to
>show).
>>>> The temperature was above freezing so the cloud type had a lot to do
>with
>>>> it I think.  From memory it was a tall cumulus cell that drifted
>over.
>>>> The freezing level was probably fairly low so it wouldn't have
>required
>>>> much of an updraught for snow and ice to form. The downdraughts were
>>>> probably sufficiently cold to maintain the snow to the surface
>(perhaps
>>>> any katabatic warming is offset by sublimation and evaporation - the
>>>> clouds weren't exceptionally high either, so it might not have
>mattered
>>>> much anyway).
>>>
>>> Sounds like Sydney gets snow about as often as Auckland does - ie
>very
>>>rarely. I think snow has settled in central Auckland only once this
>century
>>>(1939), and even then it only dusted the higher volcanic hills of the
>city
>>>(about 200 metres above sea-level).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 23:38:43 +1100
Subject: aussie-weather: Position of GMS5
From: "Mark Hardy" 
To: aussie weather 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Does anybody out there know the exact positioning of GMS5?
I have been looking for it's lat lon and altitude (above the surface). I
have found that it is lat 0, long 140E and 35,800km above the earth. Does
anybody have info which is more accurate than this?

Many thanks, Mark