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Australian Weather Mailing List Archives: Friday, 18 June 1999 |
From Subject
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001 "John Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au] 9mm in Ballina?...also cold Bris temps
002 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Types of thunderstorms
003 Les Crossan [les.crossan at virgin.net] Types of thunderstorms
004 Les Crossan [les.crossan at virgin.net] ASWA membership - yes please
005 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at rmitel.com.au] Oragraphic lift or Orographic storms?
006 Phil Bagust [paisley at cobweb.com.au] SA severe TStorm advice
007 Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at rmitel.com.au] Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
008 "Mark Hardy" [mhardy at magna.com.au] (no subject)
009 Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org] Hector...
010 Matt Smith[disarm at braenet.com.au] IRC Debate.
011 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au] IRC Debate.
012 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
013 Michael Bath [mbath at ozemail.com.au] Cold snap in SE QLD/ NE NSW
014 "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au] Mountain wave amplitude
015 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
016 Ben Quinn [bodie at flatrate.net.au] Oragraphic lift or Orographic storms?
017 Lindsay [writer at lisp.com.au] Brisbane Suburbs Could go Below 0 Tonight
018 Lindsay [writer at lisp.com.au] Camera found!
019 peter matters [pmatters at eck.net.au] Adelaides fizzer storms
020 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Canberra-wx
021 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Canberra-wx
022 Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU] Announcement - Science in the Pub
023 John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net] Canberra-wx
024 Kevin Burrows [k.burrows at bom.gov.au] Canberra-wx
025 Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org] Severe Thunderstorm south of Perth...
026 Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org] Sydney Social Night...
027 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Types of thunderstorms
028 peter matters [pmatters at eck.net.au] Possible Tornado!
029 "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au] Canberra-wx
030 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] Perth gets two tornadoes in one week!!!
031 Andrew Wall [astroman at chariot.net.au] Possible Tornado!
032 Phil Bagust [paisley at cobweb.com.au] Possible Tornado!
033 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] Oragraphic lift or Orographic storms, the final word.
034 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] Apology
035 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] tornado forecasting!
036 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] Possible Tornado!
037 Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org] Grammar...
038 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Orographic Trigger
039 Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com] Grammar...
040 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Social Gathering of Sydney ASWA members
041 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] Featured Image of the month page
042 Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au] membership in ASWA
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001
From: "John Graham" [gorzzz at one.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: 9mm in Ballina?...also cold Bris temps
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:03:49 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: James Chambers [jamestorm at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: 9mm in Ballina?...also cold Bris temps
> Hi all
>
> I remember looking through the obs last night and strangely the Ballina
> reading was updated at 2236 and read -2. I laughed when I saw it.
>
> >Just going through the 9am observations for today and it says that
Ballina
> >AWS had 9mm in last 24 hours, pretty suspect considering the bone dry
west
> >wind. Also a min of -2C, a bit sus' as well.
>
>
> Its slowly but surely going down...might get a 2-3C min temp with a light
> frost here.
>
> Regards
> James
I couldn't believe it too.....soon they'll be saying it's snowing here as
well!!!!!.........temp at the moment 8.2C windchill's at 8C as well
See Ya's
John from Ballina
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002
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:05:34 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Types of thunderstorms
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy here,
Yes I agree Michael T.
I have seen orographic activity here in Western Sydney. Occasionally,
though, and I clearly recall one time, that thunderstorms developed from
this orographic effect. The question is, why don't storms develop all the
time under orographic activity.... One can also you the same argument for
convective activity as well... why don't storms always develop under
convection??
Well this particular time, the cumulus developed in a NE airstream only on
the mtns on the escarpment section. It continued for hours and produced
thunderstorms on the mtns only in this area.
Now was there convective influence on this development??? I would say the
air was at least slightly unstable but I can't recall (mid80's) The
weather was cloudy but more as a result of the orographic activity middle
to upper level cloud development. My guess is that it most probably
occurred as a result of orographic uplift. Convection would have played a
minor role but almost negligable. You certainly can't rule it out.
Another person who was on the list from Californnia may also want to
discuss what happens in the Rockies...
That's all from me...
Jimmy Deguara
At 23:32 17/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>I will throw my two cents in, I suppose it gets down to whether you want to
>class thunderstorms by their lifting mechanism - orographic, frontal, etc,
>or by structure as in single cell, multi cell, etc.
>
>In the end whatever method it is a bit like cloud classifications, there are
>grey shades, not black and white boundaries. You can get storms like the
>August Wollongong flash flood ( yes it was a thunderstorm ) which have
>several mechanism playing, orographic being just one player.
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>> After a nice fiery debate in the #weather room in irc there
>> were a few questions that remained somewhat grey. I thought
>> that they would be interesting to post to the list to see
>> what others thought about these ideas.
>>
>> What are the types of thunderstorms that occur and what
>> would be there name?
>>
>> In the room we came up with a few but the hotly debated one
>> was,
>> is there an "orographic thunderstorm" or just one that is
>> caused by orographic lifting?
>>
>> It really comes down to the names that we give them.
>>
>> Any places in the world that might get a thunderstorm that
>> we could classify as a such?
>>
>> --
>> Michael Fewings
>> Strike One Lightning Photos
>> http://strikeone.com.au
>>
>>
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>> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>>
>
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
Australian Severe Weather Association home information page
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
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003
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:27:13 +0100
From: Les Crossan [les.crossan at virgin.net]
Organization: Personal - ICQ 17296776 - note all times in GMT
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Types of thunderstorms
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Michael Fewings wrote:
In the room we came up with a few but the hotly debated one
> was, is there an "orographic thunderstorm" or just one that is
> caused by orographic lifting?
>
Isn't an orographic thunderstorm one that has warm air forced through a
temperature inversion into unstable air by being forced upwards by
geographical features??? Technically there is no such thing as an orographic
thunderstorm - TS are convective.... but i suspect this one has been argued
out...
>
> It really comes down to the names that we give them.
>
> Any places in the world that might get a thunderstorm that
> we could classify as a such?
"Hector the Convector" in the Fiji (?) islands is a good example of a TS
caused by orographic uplift - clear air everywhere except over a single
mountain where there is one helluva multicell thunderstorm. You get orographic
TS in the Alps, presumably in your mountain ranges and to a lesser extent in
the Scottish Highlands.
There have been enough reports on this forum about severe thunderstorms
forming over the hills then drifting into more populated areas!
Les
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004
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:31:35 +0100
From: Les Crossan [les.crossan at virgin.net]
Organization: Personal - ICQ 17296776 - note all times in GMT
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: ASWA membership - yes please
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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> It'll only affect postage costs. I'll have the $$ on Mon June
> 21 after I've visited the bank and the post office.
OK - fine!
> Watch out Les:-) Many Brits end up finding that earnings v/s
> cost-of-living-lifestyle matters in Oz are much better off
> than in the UK. I worked out the logistics of this two years
> back and reasoned that to maintain our standard of living
> that we have in Oz in the UK needed 2.5x salary in AUD value.
> Take the AUD, add 20-30% and call it UK-Pounds.
and you get severe storms as well I thought Oz was really tight on pommies
immigrating to Australia now??
>
> payment in UK-Pound to a Westpac Branch in the UK (I know
> of two at least, one in Maidenhead and another in central
> London)
Both in the south of England.... good idea!!
Les
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005
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:46:34 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at rmitel.com.au]
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: Oragraphic lift or Orographic storms?
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Hi all,
Ok - here's my full argument.
For storms, the following must ALWAYS be present: heat and moisture
(yes, even 10C is classified as "heat"). These two combinations, are
key factors in the instability role.
I noticed your argument was that you always need heat and moisture for
storms to form, well yes you do - no doubt about that. But, you also
need heat and moisture with troughs/convergence lines/frontal/cold pool
storms.
Basically, my point is that no matter what the storm, some degree of
heat and moisture is needed. The orographic lift just aids to the
development, similar to a cold front. If you have a temperature of say,
32C, and a DP of 24C, there's a 95% chance you've got a CAPE well over
1000-1500 over you automatically. The orographic lifting forces this
air to rise beyond the cap (if there is not enough heat or moisture, air
will simply rise above the mountain, cool down and fall back on the other side. In my opinion, orographic
lifting is similar to that of a cold front. The warmer, moister air is
forced to rise above the cap, and once this is achieved, a thunderstorm
may occur. Once a thunderstorm moves away from the position of
orographic lift, then many of them collapse.
No matter what the type, be it a trough/convergence line/frontal/cold
pool - they ALL require some degree of heat and moisture to form (by
heat, I mean above 0K). We name trough/convergence line/frontal/cold
pool storms that way, because they're the final factor that gives the
air that final "thrust" to form a thunderstorm. Just as the same as
orographic lift does to break the cap. It happens in SE QLD a lot, and
I suspect many storms do along the eastern coast (with the Eastern
Highlands just slightly inland) and the NE (seabreeze) tradewinds during
summer, the presence of a trough/convergence line/front/cold pool is not
always needed. None-the-less, they all play a role if they're present.
I was cut apart by Anthony Cornelius, Ben Quinn and Matt
> Smith who insisted that i was wrong.
NB: Cut apart would be a far too strong a word, as Michael Fewwings
described it, a "fiery debate" is much more appropriate. And if you
would like to start naming names Ira, Matthew Smith was not involved,
and you might like to include Michael Fewwings and MJ (Mark Dwyer?)
Thank you,
Anthony Cornelius
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006
X-Sender: paisley at mail.cobweb.com.au
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:47:06 +0930
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Phil Bagust [paisley at cobweb.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: SA severe TStorm advice
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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>I think this is a classic CVA, or convection vorticity advection
>event. If you animate the JCU satpics from 18z to 09z, you can see
>major development of the cloud in the head of the comma, where the
>tail of the comma is the cloud along the cold front advancing into
>Victoria, and the head is back to the west of Adelaide. If you animate
>a sequence of vis satpix for 00, 03 and 06z, you can see how the CVA
>is at the leading edge of a tongue of cold air (speckled cloud).
>
>I'm not great in this area -- anyone else hazard a guess?
>
>--
>Laurier Williams
>Australian Weather Links and News
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wbc/
Laurier, this event was a bit of a fizzer for the central Adelaide area,
some wind and around 10mm more rain, but all the good stuff seemed to be
down south over the southern Fleurieu Peninsula and Kangaroo Id. (Parawa
AWS, approx 300m asl on a ridge only a few km from Backstairs passage often
gets interesting high readings from events like this)
I for one, would like to find out more about those 'accessory voticies'
(for want of a better word) that seem to form in pre frontal troughs, or in
the cold pool behind fronts. Often I notice that the cloud features
visible in the Bight area on the IR or visible pics dont correspond to
anything much on the surface pressure charts. There was a good intro to
this published in (I think) 'The Australian and New Zealand Weather
Handbook' a few years back - but I for one would like to know more about
cyclogenisis in the waters to our south....
Still waiting for a good frontal passage in Adelaide (as versus just lots
of rain)....
Phil 'Paisley' Bagust
paisley at cobweb.com.au
www.cobweb.com.au/~paisley
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007
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:54:17 +1000
From: Anthony Cornelius [cyclone at rmitel.com.au]
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Subject: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
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Hi all,
Another dam cold night here! I recorded 5.9C, but that's rather close
to the house, and also around 2-2.2m high in the air.
The Brisbane AP recorded 3C (eeek!), and a -1C grass temperature.
Stanthorpe and Warwick both recorded -6C, with Oakey at -5C - Oakey
recorded -9C as a grass temperature! But spare a thought for those poor
Cairns people, who only had a temperature of 27C just outside some one's
office...they must be suffering! (Yes, that's twenty-seven)
I like the forecast how it says "fine although cold early, max: 20C" -
as I don't see where the cold ends in that :)
Anthony from Brisbane
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008
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:57:53 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
From: "Mark Hardy" [mhardy at magna.com.au]
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Anthony
20 is only 1 degree below average for Brisbane. Gee you better rug up. :)
--
----------
>From: Anthony Cornelius
>To: Australian Weather Mailing List
>Subject: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:54 AM
>
> Hi all,
>
> Another dam cold night here! I recorded 5.9C, but that's rather close
> to the house, and also around 2-2.2m high in the air.
>
> The Brisbane AP recorded 3C (eeek!), and a -1C grass temperature.
> Stanthorpe and Warwick both recorded -6C, with Oakey at -5C - Oakey
> recorded -9C as a grass temperature! But spare a thought for those poor
> Cairns people, who only had a temperature of 27C just outside some one's
> office...they must be suffering! (Yes, that's twenty-seven)
>
> I like the forecast how it says "fine although cold early, max: 20C" -
> as I don't see where the cold ends in that :)
>
> Anthony from Brisbane
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>
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009
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:00:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Hector...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Les,
I think you meant the Tiwi islands (just north of Darwin) rather
than Fiji when you were talking about Hector..
- Paul.
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Les Crossan wrote:
>
>
> Michael Fewings wrote:
> In the room we came up with a few but the hotly debated one
>
> > was, is there an "orographic thunderstorm" or just one that is
> > caused by orographic lifting?
> >
>
> Isn't an orographic thunderstorm one that has warm air forced through a
> temperature inversion into unstable air by being forced upwards by
> geographical features??? Technically there is no such thing as an orographic
> thunderstorm - TS are convective.... but i suspect this one has been argued
> out...
>
>
> >
> > It really comes down to the names that we give them.
> >
> > Any places in the world that might get a thunderstorm that
> > we could classify as a such?
>
> "Hector the Convector" in the Fiji (?) islands is a good example of a TS
> caused by orographic uplift - clear air everywhere except over a single
> mountain where there is one helluva multicell thunderstorm. You get orographic
> TS in the Alps, presumably in your mountain ranges and to a lesser extent in
> the Scottish Highlands.
>
> There have been enough reports on this forum about severe thunderstorms
> forming over the hills then drifting into more populated areas!
>
> Les
>
>
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> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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010
X-Sender: disarm at braenet.com.au (Unverified)
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:39:33 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Matt Smith[disarm at braenet.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: IRC Debate.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hello Everyone.
In regards to the IRC Debate last night i ask interested people to look at
this URL:
http://marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au/~paul/storm/
in particluar this diagram on the page:
http://marconi.mpce.mq.edu.au/~paul/storm/figure6.gif
This was written by Paul Graham and I found the link on the aussie severe
weather homepage. As you can see this clearly supports the argument put
forward by Ben and Anthony.
In response to Ira's email, I voiced my support for Ben and Anthony and I
am accused of "cutting you apart" ??? I could go on to mention other
insults you made of everyone in the room at the time, but I feel what was
mentioned there stays there and I do not want to bring such things to the
List.
Matthew Smith
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011
From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: IRC Debate.
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:14:11 +1000
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It is pleasing to see healthy and informative debate going on within the
group. I have read with interest the posts today regarding orographic
lifting. I feel that education is definitely an area where many members of
the group can, and are, helping those of us with less knowledge, both by
filling in the gaps while also providing us with further inks for background
reading.
I note also that there are a growing number of subscribers to this list who
are from the BoM, CFA and other public & private organisations who are now
really starting to take a serious interest in the group.
Posts to the aussie-weather list (which now goes out to more than 110
people) need only refer to the topic which is under debate.
Jane ONeill
Victorian representative - ASWA
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012
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:31:46 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
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Hi Anthony,
Yes brrrr indeed. 6.0C min (to nearest 0.5C only in my case), two mornings
running. Thermometer is located possibly a bit too close to the house,
being mounted on the Southern edge of a timber deck, 1m above ground, 2m
from nearest wall and with open sky above, fully shaded position except for
Summer when I move it closer to the house under an eve, to ensure that it
remains in full shade. I got up early this morning, no wind, plenty of
dew, but no sign of frost at all.
I still think that there is a significant 'hills & forest' effect, as these
temps depart markedly from those reported for Ipswich, just 13k's directly
South in the flat country. I noticed Amberley reported as -3 a few
mornings ago, I had +7C that morning! I wonder where they get the dry ice
from?
John.
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Cornelius [SMTP:cyclone at rmitel.com.au]
Sent: Friday, 18 June 1999 10:54
To: Australian Weather Mailing List
Subject: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
Hi all,
Another dam cold night here! I recorded 5.9C, but that's rather close
to the house, and also around 2-2.2m high in the air.
The Brisbane AP recorded 3C (eeek!), and a -1C grass temperature.
Stanthorpe and Warwick both recorded -6C, with Oakey at -5C - Oakey
recorded -9C as a grass temperature! But spare a thought for those poor
Cairns people, who only had a temperature of 27C just outside some one's
office...they must be suffering! (Yes, that's twenty-seven)
I like the forecast how it says "fine although cold early, max: 20C" -
as I don't see where the cold ends in that :)
Anthony from Brisbane
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013
X-Sender: mbath at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:49:21 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath [mbath at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD/ NE NSW
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
It bottomed out at 4.9C at Wollongbar for the second night in a row, but
this min occurred at about 10.30pm. The temp around midnight was back up to
7, then down again to 6 around dawn. Not sure why the temp rose after 10.30
last night, as there was no cloud, and I could not detect any wind change,
though it must have been the cause.
regards, Michael
At 10:54 18/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Another dam cold night here! I recorded 5.9C, but that's rather close
>to the house, and also around 2-2.2m high in the air.
>
>The Brisbane AP recorded 3C (eeek!), and a -1C grass temperature.
>Stanthorpe and Warwick both recorded -6C, with Oakey at -5C - Oakey
>recorded -9C as a grass temperature! But spare a thought for those poor
>Cairns people, who only had a temperature of 27C just outside some one's
>office...they must be suffering! (Yes, that's twenty-seven)
>
>I like the forecast how it says "fine although cold early, max: 20C" -
>as I don't see where the cold ends in that :)
>
>Anthony from Brisbane
============================================================
Michael Bath Wollongbar, N.Rivers NSW mbath at ozemail.com.au
http://australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
http://www.lightningphotography.com/
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
============================================================
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014
From: "Jane ONeill" [cadence at rubix.net.au]
To: "Aussie Weather" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Mountain wave amplitude
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:52:24 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
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Can anyone enlighten me regarding a couple of things to do with amplitude of
mountain waves please.....
1. can you use the amplitude of a mountain wave to determine the wind speed?
2. is this wind speed at the surface? 850? 500 or 300hPa?
3. what other factors can influence the clouds forming in the lee of
mountain ranges?
Thanks,
Jane ONeill
Bayswater, Melbourne
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015
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Cold snap in SE QLD Continues...
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:04:37 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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>
> Hi all,
>
> Another dam cold night here! I recorded 5.9C, but that's rather close
> to the house, and also around 2-2.2m high in the air.
>
> The Brisbane AP recorded 3C (eeek!), and a -1C grass temperature.
> Stanthorpe and Warwick both recorded -6C, with Oakey at -5C - Oakey
> recorded -9C as a grass temperature! But spare a thought for those poor
> Cairns people, who only had a temperature of 27C just outside some one's
> office...they must be suffering! (Yes, that's twenty-seven)
Also -9.7 at Glen Innes Airport - a relatively new site (ultimately
replacing the appallingly exposed Glen Innes PO). I don't think there's
been a -10 on the Northern Tablelands since 1994 (when Woolbrook - and
yes, I know Woolbrook's technically in the Northwest Slopes - got a
-14.5), but haven't confirmed this.
Blair Trewin
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016
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:14:22 +1000
From: Ben Quinn [bodie at flatrate.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Oragraphic lift or Orographic storms?
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hey Ben from Brisbane here..
mmm.. bad choice of words IRA.. this is what i said last night, and i'll
say it again.. "i myself have never heard anyone use the term orographic
storm, but i don't see why you wouldn't be able to call a storm that is
formed by orographic lifting an orographic storm".. I am no expert by
any means, and i only know what i read over the net or in weather books
so some of the more experienced weather folk on the list may be able to
say wether or not you can technically call these types of storms
'orographic storms' or not..
As for the 'cut apart' thing.. we have MANY debates on the IRC channel
about weather related stuff.. and the only debates which end up getting
out of control are the ones which you are involved in, and 99% of the
time it is you who is out of control.. i almost fell off my chair when i
read this message to the list.. i was the one who brought up the idea of
you posting the question to the list!! if i had known you were going to
throw egg on our faces in front of the 100 or so people on the list i
wouldn't have suggested it.. you owe us an apology for twisting the
truth of the matter, and making it looks like we are the bad guys.. when
we are not.. more so to Matt Smith who quite frankly was barely involved
in the discussion..
I have to apolagise to the people on the list who have to read these
emails.. I know i have better things to do than worry about trivial
stuff like this..
Just to make this email weather related, i think michael has hit the
nail on the head describing the model forecasts for next week.. it
certainly looks like the end of this dry spell is in sight (thank god)..
I didn't mind the look of yesterdays NGP run, and the look of the MRF
and EC 500's.. as usual it will be interesting to see what the models do
over the next few days..
Ira Fehlberg wrote:
>
> I said on IRC last night that there was a few setups that formed storms,
> these are, storms formed in troughs (summer), convergence lines ( ahead of
> a low), frontal storms (along the front) and storms in the cold pool of air
> behind the front. Someone else said that there was alos orographice storms.
> I said this was incorrect as the word "orographic" describes the lifting
> mechanism not the storm and this would occur inside on of the above
> mentioned systems. I was cut apart by Anthony Cornelius, Ben Quinn and Matt
> Smith who insisted that i was wrong. I cleary stated that storms do form by
> orographic lifting ( i have the conversation logged) but that the orograph
> part is the lifting mechanism, not the storm. Maybe im wrong. Can some one
> please tell me if this is so? I would welcome any comments to help clear
> this up for me.
>
> Ira Fehlberg
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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017
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:14:41 -0700
From: Lindsay [writer at lisp.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Brisbane Suburbs Could go Below 0 Tonight
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
I often wear a t-shirt when its around 10-12 and sunny up here. It's
gorgeous! Then again at altitude the sun "feels" warmer i guess.
Lindsay p.
Anthony Cornelius wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
> Yes...what a shameful forecadt! *Hangs head in shame*
>
> It's currently freezing cold again...it was 10.3C about 30mins ago, but
> the wind has come up again a bit and is now 11.1C. DP is 1C.
>
> One thing people might want to note, ambulances have had to attend to
> over a dozen people over the past 48hrs for people suffering
> hypothermia...yet I know people in the states who will happily wear
> shorts and t-shirt in this wx! Talk about climatizing :)
>
> Anthony from Brisbane
>
> John Woodbridge wrote:
> >
> > Hi Anthony,
> >
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> > message.
> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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018
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:19:49 -0700
From: Lindsay [writer at lisp.com.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Camera found!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
So true Andrew. There are plenty of crooks who wear expensive suits. :-)
It's funny you know coz a few weeks back I found a wallet with money,
all the credit cards etc and took it back to the owner. He frieked out
and couldn't believe I had returned it,and with all the money in it.
Maybe Karma returned the favour. It sure feels good to have the camera
back and those snow photos are on the way soon.
Lindsay P.
Andrew Wall wrote:
>
> WOW! what a stroy Lindsay. It's amazing how many honest people there are
> really, thought they were a lost breed, like the people who broke into my
> car a week or so ago..
>
> Just goes to show don't judge a book by it's cover...
>
> At 17:49 15/06/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Well, no-one will believe this (refer to my earlier email about stolen
> >camera) Please excuse this one occasion of deviating from talking
> >directly about weather, as it is a weather story really anyway, sort of.
> >
> >I left home late this arvo feeling pretty down about having my expensive
> >camera stolen (had a little argument with my partner etc)and all those
> >snow photos lost forever etc and was on my way to Lithgow to a pub or
> >Mac donalds or something and you just won't believe this but there was
> >this guy trailing me in an old truck/ute and after a minute or two I
> >started feeling a bit nervous and thought I must have failed to indicate
> >and he was into road rage or something. I turned off and headed down a
> >dirt road to a lookout and thought I'd lose him for sure but he kept on
> >following me! I felt like I was in that movie, "Duel". I was saying ju
> message.
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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019
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:32:48 +1000
From: peter matters [pmatters at eck.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
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To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Adelaides fizzer storms
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi all,
If anyone is interested, I have an animated gif of Adelaides radar from
last night. Let me know and I will send you (off the list) an email with
the gif attached. In response to Jane's comment about the list, I
personally have learnt heaps since joining, and I feel the list and ASWA
have heaps to offer this countries emergency services.
Cheers Peter
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020
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Canberra-wx
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:46:59 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
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Tickled my sense of humour...
The BoM currently has a Small Boat Alert for Canberra.
John.
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021
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Canberra-wx
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:55:42 +1000 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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>
> Tickled my sense of humour...
>
> The BoM currently has a Small Boat Alert for Canberra.
>
> John.
It's for the yachts on the lake (not that I'd expect there would be
too many on a winter Friday afternoon). It's a peculiarly Canberran
beast and one step down from a strong wind warning.
The Canberra Ocean Racing Yacht Club does have a Sydney-Hobart win
to its name...
Blair Trewin
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022
From: Blair Trewin [blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Subject: aus-wx: Announcement - Science in the Pub
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Aussie Weather)
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:57:50 +1000 (EST)
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The following will be mainly of interest to Victorian readers.
Greenhouse warming
is a lot of hot air!
7.30 - 10.00 pm Thursday 8 July 1999
Stewarts Hotel,
cnr Elgin & Drummond Sts, Carlton
Science in the Pub(tm), an initiative of the NSW Branch of the Australian Science Communicators (ASC), is pleased to present another of its exciting and entertaining debates. This is being run in collaboration with the "Education: Weather, Ocean, Climate" conference, the Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (AMOS) and the Victorian Branch of the ASC.
The two speakers are
* Professor Ian Plimer, School of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne, a well-known member of the Australian Skeptics,
* Professor Ann Henderson-Sellers, Director, Environment, ANSTO, a member of the National Greenhouse Advisory Panel.
Our scintillating Science in the Pub(tm) compere Dr Paul Willis, ABC Radio science broadcaster, will lead the discussion, aided and abetted by Ms Bernie Hobbs, also from ABC Radio.
Audience participation is a vital part of a Science in the Pub(tm) debate, so come primed with your questions on this hot topic!
For further information and bookings, contact the Meteorology CRC,
phone: 9905 9660, fax: 9905 9689, email: crc at vortex.shm.monash.edu.au
Dinner before the session is available at Stewarts Hotel or from nearby restaurants in Lygon St. Buffet-style dinner at Stewarts for $14 per person will be available between 6.00 - 7:00 pm for audience members and bookings are essential at phone: 9347 3116.
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023
From: John Woodbridge [jrw at pixelcom.net]
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Canberra-wx
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:11:36 +1000
Organization: Pixel Components
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Yes Blair, I know that, it is just the first time I'd seen this alert and
found it rather amusing. (Visions of yacht's screeming down the Hume hwy
and that sort of thing).
I'm at Mt. Crosby, which is 26k's west of Brisbane, and the local community
has a Surf Life Saving club.. (true).
John.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blair Trewin [SMTP:blair at met.Unimelb.EDU.AU]
Sent: Friday, 18 June 1999 16:56
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Canberra-wx
>
> Tickled my sense of humour...
>
> The BoM currently has a Small Boat Alert for Canberra.
>
> John.
It's for the yachts on the lake (not that I'd expect there would be
too many on a winter Friday afternoon). It's a peculiarly Canberran
beast and one step down from a strong wind warning.
The Canberra Ocean Racing Yacht Club does have a Sydney-Hobart win
to its name...
Blair Trewin
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024
X-Sender: kburrows at saserver
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:48:51 +0900
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Kevin Burrows [k.burrows at bom.gov.au]
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Canberra-wx
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
John
Its Serious. Its for boats on Lake Burely Griffen.
Kevin Burrows
At 16:46 18/06/1999 +1000, you wrote:
>Tickled my sense of humour...
>
>The BoM currently has a Small Boat Alert for Canberra.
>
>John.
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
*********************************************************************
* Kevin Burrows * *
* Meteorologist * PO Box 421 *
* Climate and Consultative Services * Kent Town *
* South Australian Regional Office * South Australia 5071 *
* Bureau of Meteorology * *
* * Phone: (08) 8366 2691 *
* internet: k.burrows at bom.gov.au * Fax: (08) 8366 2693 *
*********************************************************************
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025
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:20:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Severe Thunderstorm south of Perth...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Just heard on the news that a severe thunderstorm caused damage to houses
in a town south of Perth yesterday evening. From what I could gather,
houses suffered structural damage including the loss of a roof on at least
one and tiles on others.
- Paul G.
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026
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:23:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Sydney Social Night...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Please could people in Sydney who wish to come along tomorrow night let me
know now. So far only David Croan and Michael Scollay have replied and if
I don't get any more I will have to call it off.
Send me some e-mail to m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au or phone on 98882527
Likely to be at Parramatta at about 6pm and if you have suggestions as to
a movie let me know.
Thanks.
- Paul G.
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027
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Types of thunderstorms
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:41:35 +1000
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I will have clarify my thoughts on orographic better, in my humble opinion
it is only one of several components needed. Someone once said in reply to a
" heat thunderstorm " thread on another group that heat alone never caused
any thunderstorm, the same can be said about moisture and orographic
affects. They can be the low level triggers needed to spark to fire, but
unless the rest of the atmosphere is playing the game you will get nothing.
Otherwise the Sahara in summer would be very thundery from heat, Macquarie
Island would get storms from moisture and trade wind coasts of the tropic
islands get most precip from orographic storms. We all none of this is true.
Of interest regarding our Californian friend is that southern California in
summer is often a strong sea breeze inversion, which stops convection. A
very similar setup to what we get here in the Illawarra at times, but
thankfully ours is not so stable.
Michael
>
> I have seen orographic activity here in Western Sydney. Occasionally,
> though, and I clearly recall one time, that thunderstorms developed from
> this orographic effect. The question is, why don't storms develop all the
> time under orographic activity.... One can also you the same argument for
> convective activity as well... why don't storms always develop under
> convection??
>
> Well this particular time, the cumulus developed in a NE airstream only on
> the mtns on the escarpment section. It continued for hours and produced
> thunderstorms on the mtns only in this area.
>
> Now was there convective influence on this development??? I would say the
> air was at least slightly unstable but I can't recall (mid80's) The
> weather was cloudy but more as a result of the orographic activity middle
> to upper level cloud development. My guess is that it most probably
> occurred as a result of orographic uplift. Convection would have played a
> minor role but almost negligable. You certainly can't rule it out.
>
> Another person who was on the list from Californnia may also want to
> discuss what happens in the Rockies...
>
> That's all from me...
>
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028
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:02:17 +1000
From: peter matters [pmatters at eck.net.au]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Possible Tornado!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Hi all,
Just heard on weather 21 of an unconfirmed report of a Tornado in the
Adelaide area last night. Can anyone confirm?
Cheers Peter
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029
From: "Michael Thompson" [michaelt at ozemail.com.au]
To: [aussie-weather at world.std.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Canberra-wx
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:01:39 +1000
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
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Some politician must have near drowned on Lake Burley Griffin several years
ago....seriously I suppose inland folks are not as water aware in regard to
strong winds = waves. Mind you it did not stop a a couple of guys in
Wollongong going out for a fish on Monday in 45 knot winds, of course their
boat was swamped and an expensive rescue had to be performed.
Having said that I went fishing once in Jervis Bay when a gale force west
came up and even in 15ft boat 1 was driving and 2 were bailing like mad to
stop us swamping, and that was only across 5 km of water. That was 20 years
ago and we were all keen surfers so our lives were never in danger, just an
expensive boat.
Michael
> Tickled my sense of humour...
>
> The BoM currently has a Small Boat Alert for Canberra.
>
> John.
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
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030
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:06:51 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Perth gets two tornadoes in one week!!!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Last night at approx 8:00pm the Perth suburb of Kniwana and Wiakiki was
struck by a tornado. The path was NW-SE and about 50-80m wide. I spoke at
length with Barry Hanstrum of the perth BOM this afternoon and he rated it
as an F1, with internal winds speeds around 150kph. There is mostly fairly
minor damage, many trees uprooted and lots of minor damage to homes but a
couple of houses were totally unroofed. The path length is at least 6 km
long. The tornado occured in a cell on the front.
Also we had some damage to homes in Perth last week on a possible track
that I investigated. At first i wasnt convinced that it was a tornadic
event, however today was the first chance that i have had to speak to Barry
about it. What gave me doubt that it was just a downdraft was that the
damage path is very narrow and about 4 k's long. It's usually hard to get a
downburst in a narrow channel like that...also the winds above the surface
weren't that strong to mix down in the downdraft. Barry said that over
narrow paths he wants to see winds of at least 60-70knts where as that
night we had only 30knts. So the damage must have been caused by rotation,
there fore we came to the conclusion that it was a weak F-0 tornado that
was skipping along as the damage path is broken and it probably never
really got going that good. Barry said that they will record it as a
tornado. Its great that another one was recorded simply by someone going
out there to investigate the damage path. So thats two tornadoes in one
week in Perth, a good start to winter here, and to think its only the
second week of winter!!!!!
Also winter used to be impossible to forecast here but last week on the
day of MT Pleasnt tornado i said earlier that afternoon that we were a
50/50 chance of a tornado that night, (i was mocked by some who shall
remain nameless) and yesterday afternoon i said on IRC that i will tip it
that Perth will get a tornado that night. I must say the information and
research data made avalible to me by Barry has paid off with winter
forcasting! I actually forecasted a tornado for the Perth metro area, how
good does that feel!!!!! :)
Ira Fehlberg
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031
X-Sender: astroman at chariot.net.au
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:50:23 +0930
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Andrew Wall [astroman at chariot.net.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Possible Tornado!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Here is a report I got from a guy from the severe weather section of the
BOM here in Adelaide
I went to see the damage today. It was associated with a thunderstorm
and may have been a small tornado. The damage was in a narrow path
about 2km long. There was only one house roof damaged with other damage
being to sheds and trees. The damage, though significant to those who
own the properties, was at the low end of the scale of that which would
be associated with a tornado.
regards
At 17:02 18/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>Just heard on weather 21 of an unconfirmed report of a Tornado in the
>Adelaide area last night. Can anyone confirm?
>Cheers Peter
>
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Andrew Wall (VK5NAJ)
15 Elio Drv,
Paralowie 5108,
South Australia.
ph. (08) 82854590
S.A. / N.T. Co-ordinator for the ASWA Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
S.A. Lightning Page - http://lightning.virtualave.net (I know it needs
updating)
ASWA Inc. Webpage - http://www.severeweather.asn.au
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032
X-Sender: paisley at mail.cobweb.com.au
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:52:44 +0930
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Phil Bagust [paisley at cobweb.com.au]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Possible Tornado!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
>Hi all,
>Just heard on weather 21 of an unconfirmed report of a Tornado in the
>Adelaide area last night. Can anyone confirm?
>Cheers Peter
Peter, apparently one of those 'red pixels' on that squall line went nasty
over Aldinga, about 40km south of Adelaide on the beach. I just saw a
report with some video on the news. Damage was largely confined to one
street apparently - roofs off, sheds demolished, lots of snapped trees, a
barb-que hotplate was driven through the wall of a holiday shack etc etc.
Basically looked like F-0 damage to me. Hard to tell if it was a funnel or
straight line winds from what I saw. Pity it hapenned at night.
Luckily I've got an aquaintance who lives down there - I'll give her a ring
tomorrow and get the good oil.
Oh yeah - the 10 news reported it in its opening statements as a 'possible
tornado' (!!), but in the story proper it was back to our friend the 'mini
tornado'.....
Phil 'Paisley' Bagust
paisley at cobweb.com.au
www.cobweb.com.au/~paisley
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033
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:46:21 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Oragraphic lift or Orographic storms, the final word.
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
My last say on this matter. I asked Barry ere of the Perth BOM what he
thought about all this? He said that there is no such thing as an
orographic storm, he said and i quote "thats bullshit" orographic lift is a
lifting mechanism that provides lift to form a thunderstorm. He said hed be
happy for me to quote that as well. We all know moutains sometimes give
that final bit of lift to form thunderstorms, but thats what they are,
thunderstorms.
Also it has been said that i "twisted the truth", "made insults" and other
such things, if any one wantsto know the facts of what happened email me
and ill send you a copy of the conversation as i logged it. I wont stoop to
the level other people have by starting a slinging match in here, so if you
want ot see who was really throwing the insults around, email me! But as i
suspect you've probably all bored of this along time ago anyway, :) so
yibbida yibbida thats all folks!
Ira Fehlberg
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034
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:56:43 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: Apology
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Also i want to apologise for saying in my last email that they "cut me
down" i wasnt really sure how to describe what happened last night. So my
apologys to the list if that offended anyone. Also to set some things
right, chops was the on who started the disscusion and Mark Dwyers part was
only that he aggreed with me as Matt Smith did with Ben & Anthony.
Ira Fehlberg
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035
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:07:02 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: aus-wx: tornado forecasting!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Just wanted to say that Jacob also forecasted a tornado for perth on IRC
yesterday, i wasnt there at the time so i didnt realise. This is the
coversation below.
[15:06] there WILL be tornadoes on this next cold front, just a
question of where;)
[15:07] thats a big call
[15:07] hopefully right over the perth metro area=)
:-0
Two ASWA members sucsesfully forecasting tornadoes, i wonder if thats an
aussie first???
A very happy Ira Fehlberg!!!!
PS: I just loooooooooooove WA's winters!!!!
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036
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:09:39 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Possible Tornado!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Cool Phil!! Thats two naders from that front that we know of, one here and
one in SA, interesting.
Ira Fehlberg
At 17:50 18/06/99 +0930, you wrote:
>Here is a report I got from a guy from the severe weather section of the
>BOM here in Adelaide
>
>I went to see the damage today. It was associated with a thunderstorm
>and may have been a small tornado. The damage was in a narrow path
>about 2km long. There was only one house roof damaged with other damage
>being to sheds and trees. The damage, though significant to those who
>own the properties, was at the low end of the scale of that which would
>be associated with a tornado.
>
>
>regards
>
>
>
>
>At 17:02 18/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>Just heard on weather 21 of an unconfirmed report of a Tornado in the
>>Adelaide area last night. Can anyone confirm?
>>Cheers Peter
>>
>>
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>> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
>> message.
>> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>Andrew Wall (VK5NAJ)
>15 Elio Drv,
>Paralowie 5108,
>South Australia.
>
>ph. (08) 82854590
>
>S.A. / N.T. Co-ordinator for the ASWA Inc.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>S.A. Lightning Page - http://lightning.virtualave.net (I know it needs
>updating)
>ASWA Inc. Webpage - http://www.severeweather.asn.au
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
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037
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:40:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Graham [tornado at hobbiton.org]
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Grammar...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
The past tense of forecast is forecast rather than forecasted. Just seems
strange reading "forecasted" all the time.
-Paul G.
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038
X-Sender: jimmyd at pop.ozemail.com.au
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:12:10 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Orographic Trigger
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy here,
In terms of thunderstorms, we know we need the elements of instability,
moisture and some lifting mechanism. Lifting can be a one or a combination
of a cold front, trough line, cold pool....and orographic. In the one case
that I mention, and this is one of the cases I remember over all the years
I have been observing the weather, the lifting was 'solely' caused by the
orographic effect. There was cloud cover so heating would have been
negligable. Now if cumulus mixed with stratocumulus can be caused without
heating...??? I can't comment on this.
But this day was the closest example that I can think of when the cumulus
grew larger and larger and gradually into thunderstorms more as a result of
uplift once breaking the cap. There were no thunderstorms where the cumulus
were forming all afternoon within the wind field but only right on the
escarpment and it was large cumulus followed by large cumulus dumping it on
the same area. It is not the typical summer light wind Darwin effect which
we often get. The cells were moving west. It was orographic rainfall and
the amount of probable upper level instability meant that the uplift was
faster that thunder and lightning was observed.
We also here on the east coast get other days (about once a year) when the
region west of the coast have slightly unstable air and thunderstorms
develop from the NE and move SW. This is purely as a result of heating and
intensifies as it hits the mountains.
I believe this unique example from many years ago is a case where lifting
was provided by the mtns. This is observational but I considering the
behaviour of the cumulus you get a fair idea of the elements in play.
I agree with those that say there is no clear cut defined cause but if you
try and pick out the major cause for development, then this case was mainly
caused by orography. No mtns no rain and storms..
Jimmy Deguara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
Australian Severe Weather Association home information page
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
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039
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:12:20 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ira Fehlberg [jra at upnaway.com]
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Grammar...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
mmmmm, good point, point taken.
Ira
At 04:40 18/06/99 -0500, you wrote:
>The past tense of forecast is forecast rather than forecasted. Just seems
>strange reading "forecasted" all the time.
>-Paul G.
>
>
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> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
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040
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:21:24 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Social Gathering of Sydney ASWA members
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy and Paul here,
Attention people in Sydney. Here is the arrangement for Saturday night.
We are to meet on level 1 of the food hall in Westfield Parramatta at 6pm.
>From here we will get something to eat and decide whether to see the 6:45
or 8:30 sessions of Star Wars (I haven't seen it yet, have you? I've been
told it gets better the second time around but you have to start
somewhere...) or perhaps some other film.
Please let me know ASAP if you can come..
So please come along and have a yarn. Lots to talk about
Cheers,
Jimmy Hail and Paul Graham
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
Australian Severe Weather Association home information page
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
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041
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:23:42 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: Featured Image of the month page
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy here,
Some people have found the Storm Image of the Month on our Australian
Severe Weather site something they like to look forward to heaven forbid..
Well now as a result of several conversations with people almost
complaining they didn't see that photo before, Michael Bath has added a
Featured Images of the Month
The idea of this page is to feature a significant day where perhaps many
photos were taken (doesn't have to be storms) with a different theme each
month.. This will give more of a perspective of what happened that day in
sequence.
The link is as follows:
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/photography/features/19990
6.htm DON'T SAVE THIS AS A BOOKMARK OR LINK.
It can be accessed at this stage further down the page on the photos index
on the right hand side info
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/photography/index.html
The first one is of the hailstorm at Schofields (of course hail) some of
the images are reasonably large (250k in size) in this case as they are
full of colour.. and jpg compression cannot work as well....
I hope you like this page. Some changes may occur but not major. Please enjoy.
Jimmy Deguara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
Australian Severe Weather Association home information page
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
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042
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Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:50:11 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jimmy Deguara [jimmyd at ozemail.com.au]
Subject: aus-wx: membership in ASWA
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Hi Jimmy here,
I would like to welcome to ASWA those who have joined recently in ASWA. I
would also like to encourage those wanting to join to contact their state
reps and do so. Thanks for your support.
A reminder at this stage that the Saturday 26th June meeting is getting
closer. Details:
As some may have noticed, there has been some panick as to where we will hold
our meetings. Well it is official: the meetings will be held at 2KY House on
LEVEL 3. The meeting for ASWA (Australian Severe Weather Association) will be
hold on this Saturday the 9th starting at 10:00am. We will meet at the bottom
outside at around 9:30am so that we can get in via Grant Boyden. If you are
late, you can give a quick call to Grant via his mobile on 0412661937
How to get there, accommodation (if neccessary), and arrangements is as
follows:
2KY House 20-22 Wentworth St Parramatta very close to the railway station on
the southern side. A map will be forwarded shortly. There is parking almost
opposite to the building which is about $5 a day on Saturday.
Accommodation: Mariott or the Park Royal $140. E-mail Grant Boyden
boyden at zeta.org.au
Jimmy Deguara
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Jimmy Deguara
Vice President ASWA
from Schofields, Sydney
e-mail: jimmyd at ozemail.com.au
homepage with Michael Bath
http://www.australiansevereweather.simplenet.com/
Australian Severe Weather Association home information page
http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
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| Document: 990618.htm
Updated: 27 June 1999 |
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