From: "Godsman, Andrew AG" <Godsman.Andrew.AG at bhp.com>
To: "'aussie-weather at world.std.com'" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: RE: aus-wx: Sydney Funnel Cloud Sighting...
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 07:05:52 +1100
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Hi list,
The storm that moved along the Illawarra escarpment was indeed quite impressive. Managed to get a few decent pictures of it before it started to really peak in intensity. Many jagged branching CG's and CC's. Towards the tailend of the storm there was hail at North Wollongong between 1-2cm in diameter, but wasn't too sure as some stones were jagged shards, a/c bouncing off the tile roof and onto my balcony, but one particular piece that I picked up would have pointed to quite a large hailstone, maybe in the vicinity of 3cm. The rain was great, gutters overflowing, but the lightning show afterwards was great.

The pictures that have been posted of the rear updrafts lit by the setting sun were great. I have photos looking from the opposite side. While I was watching this a fresh updraft began off the back-end, and as it grew I watched several CC's that came from the main updraft, across clear air, and hit the top of the fresh updraft. Superb!!

Anyway, if my suspicions are correct, Michael T was probably not all that close to the Illawarra, possibly removing the last obstacle to the spectacular storm witnessed. (Sorry Michael, had to say it). I will have some photos developed today, a couple of which should show what looked to be a rough inflow band that was picking up cloud from close to ground level near Dapto. It looked good to watch, will need to wait until they are developed though. Bring on the next round of storms.

Andrew Godsman

> ----------
> From: 	Paul Graham[SMTP:v_notch at hotmail.com]
> Reply To: 	aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Sent: 	Sunday, 26 November 2000 10:58
> To: 	aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: 	aus-wx: Sydney Funnel Cloud Sighting...
> 
> Hi everyone,
>                   Very impressive storm tonight with lots of lightning here
> in Sydney.  I have had reports of a possible funnel cloud in the southern
> suburbs earlier on.  Can anyone confirm this?  I have also heard reports of
> a hailstorm at Liverpool and also somewhere in the Illawarra.  Michal
> Thompson will be happy.
> Paul G.
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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> 
EOM 

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 13:10:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Mario Paul <stormtwist at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Sydney Funnel Cloud Sighting...
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
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hi all.I was in Brighton during the storm and we had
1cm hail and some streets were flooded.As for the
funnel,I thought I saw something but it was hard to
tell.I caught a glimpse of a possible funnel during a
rather prolonged lightning flash.Interestingly it was
during a lull in the storm.Everything went eerily
quiet.No wind ,no rain and it got really warm for a
few moments.Also the lightning seemed to die down a
bit. Hmmmm.......food for thought! thats enough from
me.cya all


--- Paul Graham <v_notch at hotmail.com> wrote: > Hi
everyone,
>                   Very impressive storm tonight with
> lots of lightning here
> in Sydney.  I have had reports of a possible funnel
> cloud in the southern
> suburbs earlier on.  Can anyone confirm this?  I
> have also heard reports of
> a hailstorm at Liverpool and also somewhere in the
> Illawarra.  Michal
> Thompson will be happy.
> Paul G.
> 
>
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 08:59:15 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath <mbath at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: Sydney storms: radar
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<x-flowed>
Hello,

Did anyone save the radar images of the Sydney storms last night?
If so, please upload them to a website :-)

Some shower activity has persisted all night from those storms, with 
activity west of Coffs Harbour, north of Tamworth and SW of Moree  at  9am local.

Last I heard from Jimmy's chase team yesterday afternoon, they were at 
Cunnumulla in S QLD, prevented from heading south and east by floodwaters.

MB

  =============================================================
  Michael Bath      mailto:mbath at ozemail.com.au
  McLeans Ridges    http://australiasevereweather.com/
  NE NSW Australia  http://www.lightningphotography.com/
  ASWA Secretary    http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
  =============================================================

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From: David Jones <D.Jones at bom.gov.au>
To: "Aussie Weather (E-mail)" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: climate change...
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 09:06:04 +1100
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Les wrote...

>Another indication of 'global warming', a popular topic of discussion
>within this list.  What we lack here is knowing the cause.  If we are to
>believe the climatic record, the earth has warmed in periods past
>significantly faster when man had nothing at all to do with it.  

It might be true that climate has changed rapidly in the past, but the point
is humans were not around! The experiment we are performing with the
atmosphere through our modification of greenhouse gas concentrations to
levels not seen since the time of the dinosaurs is just that - one very very
very big experiment. It is beyond our imagination what the earth was like in
such pre-historical times, and while you might be comfortable with such an
experiment, I am not. We simple do not know the final consequences, and
while it is true life will go on, many species will almost certainly
succumb. Historical evolutionary spurts are largely irrelevant, because they
occurred in a time when life was able to move freely, rather than being
constrained by human land use.

>He was not around!  So, we really do not know the actual cause of this
episode.  In
>fact, there are indications that man may well not be the cause.  Thus, in
>my opinion, we do not know enough about the cause to make drastic changes
>to our lives and society in order to curb the warming.  

At what point will we know? Physical science can never prove a theory, so
proof will never be forth coming. It comes down to probabilities, and the
weight of probabilities are increasingly pointing to the role of the
anthropogenic greenhouse effect in observed climate change. Prior to the
industrial revolution our best estimate (based on very widespread
paleo-climate information) is that the earth had a climate which was near
stable, with a cooling rate of 0.03C per century. Since the onset of
industrialisation, the earth has warmed at a rate approaching 1C per century
(in recent decades this has increased to ~3C per century), rates which are
30 and 100 times the natural rate of change. There is no proof here, but the
evidence is certainly suggestive. This is supported by advance climate
simulations which show that the changes of the 20th century cannot be
explained by the natural mechanisms of volcanic eruptions and solar
variation.

>Moreover, why should we?  If evolution is a fact, we need not worry, living
>rganisms will simply adapt and develop new cooling system designs.  The
>very large quantities of new information for these designs will
>spontaneously arise".   We need not worry about species dying out but
>rather, we can watch them adapt.  After all, Gould hypothesizes 'stochastic
>volution or punctuated equilibrium' to explain the lack of transitional
>fossil records.  Supposedly evolution took place in the past (and will take
>lace now) so rapidly that there remains no fossil records for the changes
>n organisms.

So let me get this right. You advocate the alteration of the atmosphere you
will leave future generations, and put at risk the biodiversity of this
planet, purely because you don't want to alter your life style? There will
be cost in stabilising greenhouse gas concentrations, but one can be certain
these will not be nearly as substantial as those exposed by old industries,
who have made billions through unsustainable practices. Equally, your
evolutionary theories can be applied to humans - that is imposing a strict
time-table to stabilise emissions (and eventually reduce these) and make
sustainable our economies will result in the growth of innovation and new
technologies. 

>We may be entering a very interesting period of life on this earth.

My life is certainly interesting without this. 

PS 

I must stress that this is in no way a personal criticism of Les, who I hold
in great respect. It is, however, aimed to discredit these dangerous views
which are so widespread in our community.

Regards,

David Jones
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Les" <les.crossan at virgin.net>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: climate change...
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:36:05 -0000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Jones" <D.Jones at bom.gov.au>
To: "Aussie Weather (E-mail)" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 10:06 PM
Subject: aus-wx: climate change...


> Les wrote...
>
> >Another indication of 'global warming'

Wasn't it not so long ago that atomic bomb tests and such like were making
the climate cooler, dunno about the southern hemi but by now Britain should
have been under a six feet layer of ice with the glaciers melting in a line
from Bristol to Chelmsford (Essex), according to some.

The United Kingdom has been at the forefront of emission controls for some
years now - of the tax the vehicles off the road kind (any visitor to this
small island from Oz cannot help but notice that we pay the same in pence
which you pay in cents - except it's 1.66 times more expensive) - with the
introduction of our Labour Party's "carbon tax" with 2/3 of the cost of
every litre going into John Prescotts jaguars, erm, sorry, sustainable
public transport - not. All the recent severe flooding in the UK and the
more southerly track of Atlantic depressions (and extratropical cyclones it
could be argued) has been attributed to this great global warming thing - in
fact if it wasn't for the fact that most major and not so major towns and
cities in the UK are built on historical flood plains which are just that -
historical flood plains which surprisingly enough flood from time to time.
This isn't global warming although our  Government and the press says it is.
There's an SST anomoly in the Atlantic with a warm pool as well, this isn't
global warming either. The upshot of it all is is that there simply isn't
enough proof and the rise in global temperatures could be due to a number of
factors of which co2 emissions may or may not be one.

news://uk.sci.weather  has had this argument rumbling for quite a while on
and off now with about a 50% split in those who believe and those who dont
believe in global warming.

There's a third judgment in Scottish Law which is "not proven" which
esentially means "we *think* you're guilty but there's no proof!

Personally I agree with Les (US) on this one, global warming not proven.

Les (UK)

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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From: "Paul Graham" <v_notch at hotmail.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: 26-11 Sydney Pre-Storm Winds...
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:38:41 +1100
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One feature I noticed on the PM sounding for Sydney yesterday was almost
complete 180 degree backing of the surface to 800mb winds.
Paul G.
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 12:28:15 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath <mbath at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: TDU2K chase update
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<x-flowed>
Hi all,

12:25pm local

Anthony and co are at Tamworth heading N into the towering cumulus which is 
all along the Northern Tablelands in NSW. Radar shows activity about an 
hour north of them at Armidale with a stronger cell near Tenterfield which 
I can see from my place east of it.
Storms should track generally northerly today which is good for them as the 
New England Highway which they are travelling on is also N-S. Not good for 
me as activity will probably remain to my west on the ranges.

Jimmy and co are around Goondiwindi on the QLD border. So the crews may 
meet up later.

regards, Michael

  =============================================================
  Michael Bath      mailto:mbath at ozemail.com.au
  McLeans Ridges    http://australiasevereweather.com/
  NE NSW Australia  http://www.lightningphotography.com/
  ASWA Secretary    http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
  =============================================================

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From: "Adam Mayo" <oyam at bigpond.com>
To: "Australian Severe Weather Mailing List" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx:  Sydney Storm
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:04:58 +1100
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Hi Paul, Matt and everyone,

We were out watching the storm last night as well.  From the point near
Harbord Diggers Club, we actually drove past Warriewood to go closer to the
action.

Being far from expert we hesitated to say what we saw, but yes we thought
that there was something over the ocean about 8.30 pm last night that could
have been quite a large funnel.  We watched the progress of the cloud with
every lightning flash as it moved from very near North Head out to sea maybe
for about 2 kilometres until it just blended back into the general cloud.
It looked very much like that cloud in Jimmy's favorite photo from a couple
of weeks back.

The two fishing boats that were further out to sea moved further north out
of range of the storm.  By this time there must have been about 50 people
there all watching the lightning.  We also noticed that the wind stopped and
the air got suddenly warmer and then when the cloud seemed to have collapsed
the rain began with huge big drops.

Now all we have to find out is if Adam's camera will reveal all, or if once
again he will be disappointed with the photos.

If any of you guys are heading over this way again, perhaps you could let us
know where you are.  Maybe we can swap phone numbers and then  make a "mini"
storm chase out of the lightning watching.

Judy Mayo



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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: NinnesM at franklins.com.au
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:27:39 +1100
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Hi all,

I have just noticed that since last night, radar images from the BoM now
have an embedded copyright text line in the actual GIF image file (at the
top). Just thought it was interesting and worth a mention.

Also I have noticed a downside to owning a video camera - the SLR camera
gets ignored!  :)  As a result I will have to buy a video capture card - are
there differences (ie. some only do still shots and some do MPEG's) that I
should be aware of?


Mal Ninnes
Western Sydney
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Paul Yole" <pyole at australia.edu>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:47:39 +1100
Organization: ASWA Victoria
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<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi all</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This was also pointed out this morning in IRC by 
Matt Pearce. I first found it as a bit of a hindrance due to archiving, but 
after thinking about it, I guess it's making sure that the BoM get credit for 
the images, for when someone puts a image up on their site and don't credit the 
BoM.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also, it was asked if this would disrupt archiving. 
I'm assuming it wouldn't. But could there be the chance that they are 
non-downloadable?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>PaulY</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A title=NinnesM at franklins.com.au 
  href="mailto:NinnesM at franklins.com.au">NinnesM at franklins.com.au</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=aussie-weather at world.std.com 
  href="mailto:aussie-weather at world.std.com">aussie-weather at world.std.com</A> 
  </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 27, 2000 1:27 
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> aus-wx: BoM radar / video 
  capture cards</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Hi all,<BR><BR>I have just noticed that since last night, radar 
  images from the BoM now<BR>have an embedded copyright text line in the actual 
  GIF image file (at the<BR>top). Just thought it was interesting and worth a 
  mention.<BR><BR>Also I have noticed a downside to owning a video camera - the 
  SLR camera<BR>gets ignored!&nbsp; :)&nbsp; As a result I will have to buy a 
  video capture card - are<BR>there differences (ie. some only do still shots 
  and some do MPEG's) that I<BR>should be aware of?<BR><BR><BR>Mal 
  Ninnes<BR>Western 
  Sydney<BR>&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<BR>&nbsp;To 
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  href="mailto:-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au">-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au</A>------------------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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X-Authentication-Warning: zeppo.maths.monash.edu.au: robert owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:08:54 +1100 (EDT)
From: Robert Goler <robert at mail.maths.monash.edu.au>
X-Sender: robert at zeppo.maths.monash.edu.au
To: Aussie-wx <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: WEATHER: "Esperance mops up after mini-tornado"
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I was just browsing through the news on yahoo when I came across this.
I must warn those with a sensitive disposition that the dreaded 'mini'
prefix is indeed used.

-----

Esperance residents were mopping up their main street today after
a short but fierce "mini-tornado" hit the town yesterday.

The whirlwind erupted unexpectedly about 4.45pm (WST) ripping
the roofs from a number of homes and businesses, and reducing
visibility to less than half a metre, a police spokesman said.

The town was expecting stormy weather which began about 3.30pm and ended
at 9.30pm but were surprised by the strength of winds which caused
extensive damage to the central business district.

"It was like a mini-tornado although it only lasted about three to five
minutes, you only see about a foot in front of you. It was unbelievable,"
he said.

Nobody was injured in the storm but power was out in the town for about
three hours.

State Emergency Services responded to 42 calls, 15 from people with
extensive roofing damage.

Local fire fighters also were called out, to battle spot fires caused by
lightning strikes.

The cost of the damage has yet to be estimated.

-----


Cheers

--

Robert A. Goler        

E-mail robert at mail.maths.monash.edu.au
http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/~robert/

Department of Mathematics and Statistics
Monash University
Clayton, Vic 3800
Australia

--

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: NinnesM at franklins.com.au
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: RE: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:12:41 +1100
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Hi Paul,

Yep it looks like it is part of the new 'freely-available' regime from the
BoM, pointed out the other day by David Carroll (see
http://www.bom.gov.au/announcements/media_releases/ho/001124.shtml ) which
actually starts today (27th).


Mal.


> ----------
> From: 	Paul Yole[SMTP:pyole at australia.edu]
> Sent: 	Monday, 27 November 2000 13:47
> To: 	aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: 	Re: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
> 
> Hi all
>  
> This was also pointed out this morning in IRC by Matt Pearce. I first
> found it as a bit of a hindrance due to archiving, but after thinking
> about it, I guess it's making sure that the BoM get credit for the images,
> for when someone puts a image up on their site and don't credit the BoM.
>  
> Also, it was asked if this would disrupt archiving. I'm assuming it
> wouldn't. But could there be the chance that they are non-downloadable?
>  
> PaulY
> 
> 	----- Original Message ----- 
> 	From: NinnesM at franklins.com.au 
> 	To: aussie-weather at world.std.com 
> 	Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 1:27 PM
> 	Subject: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
> 
> 	Hi all,
> 
> 	I have just noticed that since last night, radar images from the BoM
> now
> 	have an embedded copyright text line in the actual GIF image file
> (at the
> 	top). Just thought it was interesting and worth a mention.
> 
> 	Also I have noticed a downside to owning a video camera - the SLR
> camera
> 	gets ignored!  :)  As a result I will have to buy a video capture
> card - are
> 	there differences (ie. some only do still shots and some do MPEG's)
> that I
> 	should be aware of?
> 
> 
> 	Mal Ninnes
> 	Western Sydney
> 	
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> your
> 	 message.
> 	
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> 
> 
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "W.A. (Bill) Webb" <billwebb at tpgi.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: climate change...
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 14:24:29 +1000
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Hi David, Les, and list,

But which ARE the MOST dangerous views ??

Ain't freedom of expression and freedom of interpretation great ! I enjoy
the debate.

Bill in Proserpine.

> PS
>
> I must stress that this is in no way a personal criticism of Les, who I
hold
> in great respect. It is, however, aimed to discredit these dangerous views
> which are so widespread in our community.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Jones


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:27:05 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Miguel de Salas <mm_de at postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: aus-wx: Brisbane local
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That storm heading for gatton sure looks impressive on the radar...  

Miguel de Salas
mailto:mm_de at postoffice.utas.edu.au

 School of Plant Science,
 University of Tasmania,
 GPO Box 252-55, Hobart,
 Tasmania, Australia, 7001.


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 00:31:16 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: aus-wx: climate change...
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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David:

The risk is that if we are responsible (and it is an *if*), when we are
finally certain that mankind is the culprit for global warming, it will be
too late to correct the problem.  I am the first to admit that fact.

The points I made concerning evolutionary theory are in part to point out
what I consider rather baseless and vacuous ideas concerning the theory. 
But, if Gould's ideas have merit then we will not have to worry.  There
will be no loss of species and diversity but rather the opposite.  If not,
then where is evolution when you need it?  Why do we lose diversity?  Why
do creatures become extinct?  Why do they fail to adapt and evolve?  The
points  I make here are simply to perhaps stimulate people to think for
themselves.  We must ask ourselves if any one under any circumstances has
ever seen information, such as the words on this page, let alone the
enormous complexity of living, self replicating and self repairing
organisms spontaneously arise without that information first being found
latent in matter?  I simply would ask that people think.

Having made that point, I will be the first to admit this is far off topic
and we should probably return to the stimulus of the weather!!  <S>  
Anyone wishing to pursue these ideas can contact me off line.

Les

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "The Weather Co." <twc at theweather.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:58:31 +1100
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Hi Mal,

Is your video camera Digital or Hi8. If its Digital I would recommend the
"Pinnacle Studio DV" card which uses the firewire interface to capture video
onto your PC. If on the otherhand your camera is a Hi8 I would use a card
such as "Hauppauge's WinTV". I have both of these cards in my PC and have
had no problems with them at all. They both can capture still and full
motion video. The Hauppauge WinTV captures to the AVI format but you can get
converters off the net which will allow you to create MPEG files. The
Pinnacle Studio DV card outputs to all the common video formats such as
MPEG, AVI and RealVideo.

Matthew Piper
____________________
The Weather Company
Level 2, 7 West Street
North Sydney 2060
Phone: (02) 9955 7704
Fax: (02) 9955 1536
http://www.theweather.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: <NinnesM at franklins.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2000 1:27 PM
Subject: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards


> Hi all,
>
> I have just noticed that since last night, radar images from the BoM now
> have an embedded copyright text line in the actual GIF image file (at the
> top). Just thought it was interesting and worth a mention.
>
> Also I have noticed a downside to owning a video camera - the SLR camera
> gets ignored!  :)  As a result I will have to buy a video capture card -
are
> there differences (ie. some only do still shots and some do MPEG's) that I
> should be aware of?
>
>
> Mal Ninnes
> Western Sydney
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>  message.
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Sender: carls at ford.ace-net.com.au
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:09:17 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Carl Smith <carls at ace-net.com.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: climate change...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi All.

>David:
>
>The risk is that if we are responsible (and it is an *if*), when we are
>finally certain that mankind is the culprit for global warming, it will be
>too late to correct the problem.  I am the first to admit that fact.
>
>The points I made concerning evolutionary theory are in part to point out
>what I consider rather baseless and vacuous ideas concerning the theory.
>But, if Gould's ideas have merit then we will not have to worry.  There
>will be no loss of species and diversity but rather the opposite.  If not,
>then where is evolution when you need it?  Why do we lose diversity?  Why
>do creatures become extinct?  Why do they fail to adapt and evolve?  The
>points  I make here are simply to perhaps stimulate people to think for
>themselves.  We must ask ourselves if any one under any circumstances has
>ever seen information, such as the words on this page, let alone the
>enormous complexity of living, self replicating and self repairing
>organisms spontaneously arise without that information first being found
>latent in matter?  I simply would ask that people think.
>
>Having made that point, I will be the first to admit this is far off topic
>and we should probably return to the stimulus of the weather!!  <S>
>Anyone wishing to pursue these ideas can contact me off line.
>
>Les
<snip>

Perhaps the scientifically inclined should consider that there is no
physical evidence to support evolutionary theory whatsoever.

Can anyone point to a single example of a lifeform in transition from an
old species to a new one, whether fossilised or living????

As far as I know, no such examples exist, therefore the whole evolutionary
theory is suspect - Darwin himself decided it was false before his death.

It seems that vested interests with money and power are keeping it alive in
the absence of any real evidence, and any presupposition of the survival of
particular life-forms based on it is also suspect.

Regards,
Carl.


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:32:43 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: aus-wx: climate change...
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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David Jones wrote:

> I must stress that this is in no way a personal criticism of Les, who I
hold
> in great respect.

I am sorry that in my reply I failed to mention the grace of David's
response here.  I very much thank you for this public statement of respect
and your ability to maintain such in the midst of a scientific debate.  I
hope we can all follow David's example!

Les

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Authentication-Warning: zeppo.maths.monash.edu.au: robert owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:01:24 +1100 (EDT)
From: Robert Goler <robert at mail.maths.monash.edu.au>
X-Sender: robert at zeppo.maths.monash.edu.au
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aus-wx: climate change...evolution?
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> 
> Perhaps the scientifically inclined should consider that there is no
> physical evidence to support evolutionary theory whatsoever.
> 
> Can anyone point to a single example of a lifeform in transition from an
> old species to a new one, whether fossilised or living????
> 

Sorry for keeping this offtopic thing alive, and I must admit that I'm no
expert here, but don't life forms (admittedly not complex forms such as
the animals most people first think of eg humans, cows, lions....) such as
viruses/bacteria readily evolve. I mean just reading in New Scientist
magazines shows how scientists have to come up with new medicines to
combat certain diseases because they have become immune to more commonly
used medicines. And I believe pests in the form of insects/weeds also
evolve to become resistant to pesticides/herbicides and the like. 

In order for such evolution to occur requires many (10s to 100s) of
generations to take place. For simple organisms, this may be seen over a
human lifetime. But complex organisms like humans themselves would
require over a thousand years or so. As a result, you're probably not
likely to go out in the bush and find a kangaroo or something similar in
the midst of evolving into something _drastically_ different overnight.


On a weather note, did other people see that cell split on the Grafton
local radar at 0600UTC , just to the southeast of Glen Innes?


Cheers

--

Robert A. Goler        

E-mail robert at mail.maths.monash.edu.au
http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/~robert/

Department of Mathematics and Statistics
Monash University
Clayton, Vic 3800
Australia

--


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Paul Mossman" <ntstorms at bigpond.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: RE: aus-wx: climate change...evolution?
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:51:20 +0930
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I must say I am enjoying the battle of the geniuses!! Keep it up

Another note - is anyone having problems getting on to the Weather Co. site.
It continually returns error messages for me.

PS - it is flogging down here atm - very squally TS.

Paul in Darwin.

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 05:44:06 +1000
From: Tim.Perry at env.qld.gov.au (Tim Perry)
Organization: Environmental Protection Agency
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD DEPA450  (WinNT; I)
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Subject: Re: aus-wx: climate change...
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

> Can anyone point to a single example of a lifeform in transition from an
> old species to a new one, whether fossilised or living????
>
> As far as I know, no such examples exist, therefore the whole evolutionary
> theory is suspect - Darwin himself decided it was false before his death.
>
> It seems that vested interests with money and power are keeping it alive in
> the absence of any real evidence, and any presupposition of the survival of
> particular life-forms based on it is also suspect.
>
> Regards,
> Carl.
>
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>  message.
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

This is a funny way to introduce my self to the list. But lifes like that.
Eucalypts are demonstrably evolving and developing new species right now. On a
more interesting and bizzare note a new species of wallaby appears to have
evolved in this century on the Hawaiian island of Kauai as a result of
hybridisation and a radical change in habitat. I'm prepared to concede that
those vested perverts are giving us the shaft but I don't think they're using
evolution to do it.
On a weathery note, I'm not a storm chaser (I got chased by one accros a black
soil plain a few weeks ago, only just made it too) but I like the list a lot,
there's a fairly powerful element of fun in it and lots of good information. I
find it very useful when I'm planning field work.
We're approaching the extreme weather season in my part of the world (it seems
to be starting early), I'll try to make some less biological contributions if I
see any good storms. I'll confess to being a bit intimidated by the high level
of weather knowledge of other list members.
Tim
--
Tim Perry
Senior Conservation Officer - Northern Region
Phone 07 4722 5298 Fax 07 4722 5274
E-mail:Tim Perry at env.qld.gov.au


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "The Weather Co." <twc at theweather.com.au>
To: "Maillist Weather doods" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Video Capture Cards
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:13:44 +1100
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Hi Mal,

Is your video camera Digital or Hi8. If its Digital I would recommend the
"Pinnacle Studio DV" card which uses the firewire interface to capture video
onto your PC. If on the otherhand your camera is a Hi8 I would use a card
such as "Hauppauge's WinTV". I have both of these cards in my PC and have
had no problems with them at all. They both can capture still and full
motion video. The Hauppauge WinTV captures to the AVI format but you can get
converters off the net which will allow you to create MPEG files. The
Pinnacle Studio DV card outputs to all the common video formats such as
MPEG, AVI and RealVideo.

Matthew Piper


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Sender: astroman at mail.chariot.net.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:20:31 +1030
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Andrew Wall <astroman at chariot.net.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Video Capture Cards
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

<x-flowed>
What about normal 8mm, is that the same as Hi8?? Just getting into this 
video stuff and wondered if the Hi8 tapes can be used on my Video Camera, 
which is a Sony TR317e.

Andrew W



At 08:13 PM 11/27/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Hi Mal,
>
>Is your video camera Digital or Hi8. If its Digital I would recommend the
>"Pinnacle Studio DV" card which uses the firewire interface to capture video
>onto your PC. If on the otherhand your camera is a Hi8 I would use a card
>such as "Hauppauge's WinTV". I have both of these cards in my PC and have
>had no problems with them at all. They both can capture still and full
>motion video. The Hauppauge WinTV captures to the AVI format but you can get
>converters off the net which will allow you to create MPEG files. The
>Pinnacle Studio DV card outputs to all the common video formats such as
>MPEG, AVI and RealVideo.
>
>Matthew Piper
>
>
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>  message.
>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
</x-flowed>
From: tlang at freeway.apana.org.au (Tony Langdon)
Date: 27 Nov 00 20:46:30 +1000
Subject: Re: aus-wx: BoM radar / video capture cards
Organization: Fidonet: Freeway Usenet <=> FTN gateway 
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Hello Paul!

27 Nov 00 13:47, you wrote to All:

 PY> Also, it was asked if this would disrupt archiving. I'm assuming it =
 PY> wouldn't. But could there be the chance that they are
 PY> non-downloadable?

Very little is non downloadable, as the PrtSc key usually works, and if that
fails, a second machine with a remote control programm such as pcAnywhere will
work.  Where there's a will. :-)

But if the images weren't intended to be downloaded, I'd keep any files so
"snaffled" for personal archiving only...

Tony, VK3JED
--
|Fidonet:  Tony Langdon 3:633/284.18
|Internet: tlang at freeway.apana.org.au
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.


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