From: "Karratha Weather Observations" <kevans at kisser.net.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: TC Sam Cat 4!!!!
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 21:56:25 +0800
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hey All!

TC Sam is currently intensifying VERY rapidly and is now a Severe Cat 4
Tropical Cyclone with gusts to 225km/h ! and 950hPa.....and is back on a SW
track towards the Port Hedland area...could be nasty

BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
WESTERN AUSTRALIAN REGIONAL OFFICE

Media: The Emergency Warning Signal should be used with this warning.



TROPICAL CYCLONE ADVICE NUMBER 41
Issued at 9:50 pm WST on Thursday, 7 December 2000
BY THE BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
TROPICAL CYCLONE WARNING CENTRE PERTH

A WARNING is current for a severe category 4 tropical cyclone for coastal
communities between Cape Leveque and Pardoo.

A TROPICAL CYCLONE WATCH extends west from Pardoo to Whim Creek.

At 10pm [WST]SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM was located 145 kilometres
westnorthwest of Broome, 145 kilometers northwest of Bidyadanga and 230
kilometers north of Wallal, moving southwest at 9 kilometres per hour.

Gales with gusts to 120 kilometres per hour are likely on the coast  between
Cape Leveque and Bidyadanga, extending southwards to Pardoo overnight and
Friday. As the cyclone approaches the coast Friday, very destructive wind
gusts
greater than 220 kilometers per hour are expected near the cyclone centre.

Tides between Cape Leveque and Wallal are likely to be higher than normal
with
very rough seas and flooding of low lying coastal areas.
Heavy rain in the West Kimberley and East Pilbara is likely to cause
flooding.

Details of SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM at 10pm WST.

  Location of centre : Latitude 17.7 South Longitude 120.9 East.
  Recent movement    : Southwest at 9 kilometres per hour.
  Central Pressure   : 950 hPa.
  Maximum wind gusts : 225 kilometres per hour near the centre.
  Severity category  : 4

The WA State Emergency Service advises of the following community alerts;
YELLOW ALERT: Communities between Cape Leveque and Bidyadanga including the
communities at Cape Leveque, Djarindjin, Lombadina, Beagle Bay,  Broome and
Bidyadanga.

BLUE ALERT:  Communities south of Bidyadanga to Pardoo, including the
communities of Wallal, Sandfire, Mandora, 80 Mile Beach and Pardoo.

The next advice will be issued at 1:00 am Friday.
This advice is available by dialling 1300 659 210.

Regards
JJ
Karratha WA
www.karrathaweather.org
cyclone at karrathaweather.org


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Sender: carls at ford.ace-net.com.au
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 03:45:40 +1000
To: Aussie Weather List <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
From: Carl Smith <carls at ace-net.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: TC SAM Cat 4, 930 hPa, 250 km/hr!
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi All.

Looks like Sam has explosively deepened to a high Cat 4 - will it become
Cat 5 during the morning?

BoM TCA#42 below.

Regards,
Carl.

IDW50W05
BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
WESTERN AUSTRALIAN REGIONAL OFFICE

Media: The Emergency Warning Signal should be used with this warning.



TROPICAL CYCLONE ADVICE NUMBER 42
Issued at 12:55 am WST on Friday, 8 December 2000
BY THE BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
TROPICAL CYCLONE WARNING CENTRE PERTH

A WARNING is current for a severe category 4 tropical cyclone for coastal
communities between Broome and Pardoo.

A TROPICAL CYCLONE WATCH extends west from Pardoo to Whim Creek.

At 1 am [WST]SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM was located 153 kilometres west of
Broome, 146 kilometres northwest of Bidyadanga and 226 kilometres north of
Wallal, moving westsouthwest at 3 kilometres per hour, parallel to the coast.

Gales with gusts to 120 kilometres per hour may develop on the coast  between
Broome and Pardoo later today or tonight.

Heavy rain in the West Kimberley and East Pilbara is likely to cause flooding.

Details of SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM at 1 am WST.

  Location of centre : Latitude 17.8 South Longitude 120.8 East.
  Recent movement    : Westsouthwest at 3 kilometres per hour.
  Central Pressure   : 930 hPa.
  Maximum wind gusts : 250 kilometres per hour near the centre.
  Severity category  : 4

The WA State Emergency Service advises of the following community alerts:
YELLOW ALERT: Communities between Cape Leveque and Bidyadanga including the
communities at Cape Leveque, Djarindjin, Lombadina, Beagle Bay,  Broome and
Bidyadanga.

BLUE ALERT: Communities south of Bidyadanga to Pardoo, including the
communities
of Wallal, Sandfire, Mandora, 80 Mile Beach and Pardoo.

The next advice will be issued at 4:00 am Friday.
This advice is available by dialling 1300 659 210.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carl Smith.
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia.
Email: carls at ace-net.com.au
Internet: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm
Current Cyclone information: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm
Cyclone Tracking Maps: http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm
                   or: http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm
Tropical Cyclone Archives: http://cyclones.50megs.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Lyle Pakula" <lyle at atmos.colostate.edu>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:51:55 -0700
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Hi Jonty,

I think that continential cloud masses have more CCN than maratime. It's the
percentage of aerosols in maratime airmasses than can form CCN that is
higher, due to their solubility, but the net amount of CCN is higher for
continental air masses - in general of course. I'm also not sure about your
reasoning for updraught vs drop size argument - the faster the updraught,
the less time for a droplet to grow, by any of the mechanisims - hence the
BWER in severe thunderstorms. I was under the impression that the heavy rain
is what causes the reduced dBz values via attentuation - as you mentioned.

cheers, Lyle.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonty Hall" <jdh at vortex.shm.monash.edu.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar


> Hi Clyve,
>
> You are on the right track - it is mostly cloud microphysical reasons for
> this. Tropical cyclones form in a maritime environment in which there is a
> relative abundance of cloud condensation nuclei (CCN), which to cut a long
> story short, leads to a relatively large number of small precipitation
> particles (compared to continental clouds). Another factor is that updraft
> speeds are generally a fair bit smaller in TCs than in severe thunderstorm
> convection - this also limits the diameter of the precipitation particles.
> This is critical, as it turns out that radar reflectivity is a very strong
> function of droplet diameter (something like ten to the sixth power). Also
> an important factor as you say Clyve, is the freezing level (which is
> probably higher than 15 000 in a warm-cored TC) - the largest
> reflectivities are produced by water coated ice particles - these are not
> present in TC precip.
>
> Finally, beam attenuation can be a problem in the widespread intense
> precip fields of TCs, even for S band (10 cm) radars. C band radars (5 cm)
> suffer badly in this environment. I'm not exactly sure, but I think all of
> Australia's weatherwatch radars around the coast are S band units (except
> for the two doppler radars in Sydney and Darwin, which are C band).
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonty.
>
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, clyve herbert wrote:
>
> > Hi Andrew.
> > I have noted in the past that radar does not appear to show very intense
> > rainfall reflectivity and I think this is also the case for TC Sam  I
have
> > also seen weak reflectitivity from other cyclones also judging by the
sat
> > pic I would expect much heavier returns does anybody have an explanation
for
> > this i.e. does warm rain generation reflect with poorer returns than
cold
> > rain generated by falling snow I would presume the freezing level would
be
> > about 15.000ft around Sam.regards Clyve Herbert.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Andrew Miskelly <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au>
> > To: Aussie Weather <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:16 PM
> > Subject: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
> >
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > TC Sam can now be seen just off the coast north of Broome on the
Broome
> > > broad scale radar (loop is best ofcourse). It looks to be heading SSW
> > > very slowly. Not a great deal of rain.
> > >
> > > Andrew.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew Miskelly
> > > Illawarra/Southern Tablelands, NSW
> > > amiskelly at ozemail.com.au
> > >
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your
> > >  message.
> >
  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
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> >  message.
> >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
>
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>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Karratha Weather Observations" <karrathaweather at wn.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: TC Sam close to a CAT 5!!! 25th Anniversary of TC Joan hitting Port Hedland
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 01:27:29 +0800
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hey all

TC Sam is continuing to intensify and is now a STRONG CAT 4 on a W/SW track
at a very slow 3km/h. Today marks the 25th Anniversary when TC Joan
devastated Port Hedland back in 1975 and caused $25 million damage......and
that's in 1975 $$!! this one could be worse...

Latest advice

BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
WESTERN AUSTRALIAN REGIONAL OFFICE

Media: The Emergency Warning Signal should be used with this warning.



TROPICAL CYCLONE ADVICE NUMBER 42
Issued at 12:55 am WST on Friday, 8 December 2000
BY THE BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
TROPICAL CYCLONE WARNING CENTRE PERTH

A WARNING is current for a severe category 4 tropical cyclone for coastal
communities between Broome and Pardoo.

A TROPICAL CYCLONE WATCH extends west from Pardoo to Whim Creek.

At 1 am [WST]SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM was located 153 kilometres west of
Broome, 146 kilometres northwest of Bidyadanga and 226 kilometres north of
Wallal, moving westsouthwest at 3 kilometres per hour, parallel to the
coast.

Gales with gusts to 120 kilometres per hour may develop on the coast
between
Broome and Pardoo later today or tonight.

Heavy rain in the West Kimberley and East Pilbara is likely to cause
flooding.

Details of SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM at 1 am WST.

  Location of centre : Latitude 17.8 South Longitude 120.8 East.
  Recent movement    : Westsouthwest at 3 kilometres per hour.
  Central Pressure   : 930 hPa.
  Maximum wind gusts : 250 kilometres per hour near the centre.
  Severity category  : 4

The WA State Emergency Service advises of the following community alerts:
YELLOW ALERT: Communities between Cape Leveque and Bidyadanga including the
communities at Cape Leveque, Djarindjin, Lombadina, Beagle Bay,  Broome and
Bidyadanga.

BLUE ALERT: Communities south of Bidyadanga to Pardoo, including the
communities
of Wallal, Sandfire, Mandora, 80 Mile Beach and Pardoo.

The next advice will be issued at 4:00 am Friday.
This advice is available by dialling 1300 659 210.

Regards
JJ
Karratha WA
www.karrathaweather.org
cyclone at karrathaweather.org


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:09:27 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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Lyle wrote:

> I'm also not sure about your
> reasoning for updraught vs drop size argument - the faster the updraught,
> the less time for a droplet to grow, by any of the mechanisims - hence
the
> BWER in severe thunderstorms. I was under the impression that the heavy
rain
> is what causes the reduced dBz values via attenuation - as you mentioned.

I hope that Lyle and Jonty don't mind me jumping in here.

Note that the BWER is associated with the intense updraft core in the
mid-storm levels.  It is capped by a high reflectivity core where large
concentrations of super cooled liquid water and growing hail are present. 
Additionally, the BWER is surrounded by growing precipitation in the form
of graupel and rain form.  This is occurring in the 'skirts' of the primary
updraft.  Vertical velocities in the updraft core may reach 35 to 60 m/s
while in these skirts it may be nearer 15 to 20 m/s.  (Updrafts within
tropical clouds are a fraction of these values, ~ 3 to 15 m/s if I recall
correctly.)

Supercells are not particularly efficient in developing precipitation but
most do develop very high rainfall rates and large liquid water drops (up
to 7 mm in size) in addition to large hail.  Of course, the exception to
this is the "Low Precipitation" supercell which is found to produce mostly
large hail and little rainfall.  

Relative to the problem of attenuation, as a first approximation you can
neglect S-band, 10 to 11 cm wavelength, attenuation.  In very heavy rain
and hail, the signal can be attenuated by up to 0.1 dB to perhaps 0.5 dB
per km.  However, C-band attenuation is about a factor of 10 higher (1 dB
and sometimes greater per km).  Thus, the relatively low reflectivity of
the tropical systems is the *small* diameter to the rain drops in contrast
to the much larger drop sizes of the extratropical precipitation systems
and thunderstorms.

I hope this is clear and that I have not overly intruded into your
discussions.

Les  

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Lyle Pakula" <lyle at atmos.colostate.edu>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:17:52 -0700
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just had a second look, for normal clouds, continental CCN is higher but the
main thing with tropical storms are the surface winds. Aersol generation is
proprtional to winds so, for a tropical storm, there will be a major source
of aersol->CCN once the winds pick up. I just wanted to clairfy the whole
CCN concentration thing :)

cheers, LYle.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle Pakula" <lyle at atmos.colostate.edu>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar


> Hi Jonty,
>
> I think that continential cloud masses have more CCN than maratime. It's
the
> percentage of aerosols in maratime airmasses than can form CCN that is
> higher, due to their solubility, but the net amount of CCN is higher for
> continental air masses - in general of course. I'm also not sure about
your
> reasoning for updraught vs drop size argument - the faster the updraught,
> the less time for a droplet to grow, by any of the mechanisims - hence the
> BWER in severe thunderstorms. I was under the impression that the heavy
rain
> is what causes the reduced dBz values via attentuation - as you mentioned.
>
> cheers, Lyle.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonty Hall" <jdh at vortex.shm.monash.edu.au>
> To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:38 PM
> Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
>
>
> > Hi Clyve,
> >
> > You are on the right track - it is mostly cloud microphysical reasons
for
> > this. Tropical cyclones form in a maritime environment in which there is
a
> > relative abundance of cloud condensation nuclei (CCN), which to cut a
long
> > story short, leads to a relatively large number of small precipitation
> > particles (compared to continental clouds). Another factor is that
updraft
> > speeds are generally a fair bit smaller in TCs than in severe
thunderstorm
> > convection - this also limits the diameter of the precipitation
particles.
> > This is critical, as it turns out that radar reflectivity is a very
strong
> > function of droplet diameter (something like ten to the sixth power).
Also
> > an important factor as you say Clyve, is the freezing level (which is
> > probably higher than 15 000 in a warm-cored TC) - the largest
> > reflectivities are produced by water coated ice particles - these are
not
> > present in TC precip.
> >
> > Finally, beam attenuation can be a problem in the widespread intense
> > precip fields of TCs, even for S band (10 cm) radars. C band radars (5
cm)
> > suffer badly in this environment. I'm not exactly sure, but I think all
of
> > Australia's weatherwatch radars around the coast are S band units
(except
> > for the two doppler radars in Sydney and Darwin, which are C band).
> >
> > Hope that helps...
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jonty.
> >
> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, clyve herbert wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Andrew.
> > > I have noted in the past that radar does not appear to show very
intense
> > > rainfall reflectivity and I think this is also the case for TC Sam  I
> have
> > > also seen weak reflectitivity from other cyclones also judging by the
> sat
> > > pic I would expect much heavier returns does anybody have an
explanation
> for
> > > this i.e. does warm rain generation reflect with poorer returns than
> cold
> > > rain generated by falling snow I would presume the freezing level
would
> be
> > > about 15.000ft around Sam.regards Clyve Herbert.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Andrew Miskelly <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au>
> > > To: Aussie Weather <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:16 PM
> > > Subject: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > TC Sam can now be seen just off the coast north of Broome on the
> Broome
> > > > broad scale radar (loop is best ofcourse). It looks to be heading
SSW
> > > > very slowly. Not a great deal of rain.
> > > >
> > > > Andrew.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Miskelly
> > > > Illawarra/Southern Tablelands, NSW
> > > > amiskelly at ozemail.com.au
> > > >
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> to:majordomo at world.std.com
> > > >  with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of
> your
> > > >  message.
> > >
>   -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
> > >
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> your
> > >  message.
> >
  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> > >
> >
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> >  message.
> >  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
> >
>
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: chris.nitsopoulos at jcu.edu.au
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: SAM CAT 5
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 05:57:23 +1000 (AEST)
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Hi All

      Latest warning from Sam is that he has developed into a Cat5. Brilliant 
eye visible on all sattelite pictures, and radar. Most models still forecasting 
recurvature to the South. Below is the latest advice.
Cheers:    Chris Nitso

TROPICAL CYCLONE ADVICE NUMBER 43
Issued at 3:55 am WST on Friday, 8 December 2000
BY THE BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY
TROPICAL CYCLONE WARNING CENTRE PERTH

A WARNING is current for a severe category 5 tropical cyclone for coastal
communities between Broome and Pardoo. 

A TROPICAL CYCLONE WATCH extends west from Pardoo to Whim Creek. 

At 4 am [WST]SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM was located 151 kilometres west of
Broome, 134 kilometres northwest of Bidyadanga and 209 kilometres north of
Wallal and moving southwest at 2 kilometres per hour.   

Gales with gusts to 120 kilometres per hour are expected to develop on a section
of the coast between Broome and Pardoo later today or tonight.  

Heavy rain in the West Kimberley and East Pilbara is likely to cause flooding.

Details of SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM at 4 am WST.

  Location of centre : Latitude 17.9 South Longitude 120.8 East.
  Recent movement    : Southwest at 2 kilometres per hour.
  Central Pressure   : 920 hPa.
  Maximum wind gusts : 280 kilometres per hour near the centre.
  Severity category  : 5

The WA State Emergency Service advises of the following community alerts:

A BLUE ALERT is current from Cape Leveque to Pardoo including the communities of
Cape Leveque, Djarindjin, Lombadina, Beagle Bay, Broome,  Bidyadanga, Wallal,
Sandfire, Mandora, 80 Mile Beach and Pardoo.

The next advice will be issued at 7:00 am today.
This advice is available by dialling 1300 659 210.

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Bruno Benjamin" <b.benjamin at ouragans.com>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Looking for links and info
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:07:37 -0400
Organization: Ouragans.com
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<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Hi All</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I'm a very discrete reader of this mail-list since last august 
and also proud webmaster of the first website wholly in french about hurricanes 
in the Atlantic. But I've decided to extend my coverage to the other oceans and 
I have tons of difficulties to provide the same products.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>This is particularly for Carl. Where can I find data sources 
for forecasts in the Pacific and/or the Indian Ocean? Is there like a website 
where I can get basic info, or an FTP anonymous server? I have this for the 
Atlantic with Wx-Atlan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks to assist me</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>For those of you you read french, you can check:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><A 
href="http://www.ouragans.com">http://www.ouragans.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2><BR>Bruno Benjamin</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2><B>Ouragans.com</B><BR>Le premier portail 
francophone<BR>de surveillance cyclonique mondial<BR><A 
href="http://www.ouragans.com">http://www.ouragans.com</A> </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana size=2><B>Ourafans</B> - Les listes de diffusion<BR><A 
href="mailto:ourafans-atlantique-subscribe at egroups.fr">Atlantique</A> - <A 
href="mailto:ourafans-reunion-subscribe at egroups.fr">Réunion</A> - <A 
href="mailto:ourafans-tahiti-subscribe at egroups.fr">Tahiti</A> - <A 
href="mailto:ourafans-pacifique-subscribe at egroups.fr">Pacifique</A></FONT> 
</P></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Message d'origine ----- 
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>De :</B> <A 
title=carls at ace-net.com.au href="mailto:carls at ace-net.com.au">Carl Smith</A> 
</DIV>
<DIV><B>À :</B> <A title=aussie-weather at world.std.com 
href="mailto:aussie-weather at world.std.com">Aussie Weather List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Envoyé&nbsp;:</B> jeudi 7 décembre 2000 13:45</DIV>
<DIV><B>Objet :</B> aus-wx: TC SAM Cat 4, 930 hPa, 250 km/hr!</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi All.<BR><BR>Looks like Sam has explosively deepened to a high 
Cat 4 - will it become<BR>Cat 5 during the morning?<BR><BR>BoM TCA#42 
below.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Carl.<BR><BR>IDW50W05<BR>BUREAU OF 
METEOROLOGY<BR>WESTERN AUSTRALIAN REGIONAL OFFICE<BR><BR>Media: The Emergency 
Warning Signal should be used with this warning.<BR><BR><BR><BR>TROPICAL CYCLONE 
ADVICE NUMBER 42<BR>Issued at 12:55 am WST on Friday, 8 December 2000<BR>BY THE 
BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY<BR>TROPICAL CYCLONE WARNING CENTRE PERTH<BR><BR>A WARNING 
is current for a severe category 4 tropical cyclone for coastal<BR>communities 
between Broome and Pardoo.<BR><BR>A TROPICAL CYCLONE WATCH extends west from 
Pardoo to Whim Creek.<BR><BR>At 1 am [WST]SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM was 
located 153 kilometres west of<BR>Broome, 146 kilometres northwest of Bidyadanga 
and 226 kilometres north of<BR>Wallal, moving westsouthwest at 3 kilometres per 
hour, parallel to the coast.<BR><BR>Gales with gusts to 120 kilometres per hour 
may develop on the coast&nbsp; between<BR>Broome and Pardoo later today or 
tonight.<BR><BR>Heavy rain in the West Kimberley and East Pilbara is likely to 
cause flooding.<BR><BR>Details of SEVERE TROPICAL CYCLONE SAM at 1 am 
WST.<BR><BR>&nbsp; Location of centre : Latitude 17.8 South Longitude 120.8 
East.<BR>&nbsp; Recent movement&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; : Westsouthwest at 3 
kilometres per hour.<BR>&nbsp; Central Pressure&nbsp;&nbsp; : 930 hPa.<BR>&nbsp; 
Maximum wind gusts : 250 kilometres per hour near the centre.<BR>&nbsp; Severity 
category&nbsp; : 4<BR><BR>The WA State Emergency Service advises of the 
following community alerts:<BR>YELLOW ALERT: Communities between Cape Leveque 
and Bidyadanga including the<BR>communities at Cape Leveque, Djarindjin, 
Lombadina, Beagle Bay,&nbsp; Broome and<BR>Bidyadanga.<BR><BR>BLUE ALERT: 
Communities south of Bidyadanga to Pardoo, including the<BR>communities<BR>of 
Wallal, Sandfire, Mandora, 80 Mile Beach and Pardoo.<BR><BR>The next advice will 
be issued at 4:00 am Friday.<BR>This advice is available by dialling 1300 659 
210.<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Carl Smith.<BR>Gold 
Coast, Queensland, Australia.<BR>Email: <A 
href="mailto:carls at ace-net.com.au">carls at ace-net.com.au</A><BR>Internet: <A 
href="http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm">http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/index.htm</A><BR>Current 
Cyclone information: <A 
href="http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm">http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/current.htm</A><BR>Cyclone 
Tracking Maps: <A 
href="http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm">http://www.ace-net.com.au/~carls/TCMaps.htm</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
or: <A 
href="http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm">http://cyclones.50megs.com/maps/TCMaps.htm</A><BR>Tropical 
Cyclone Archives: <A 
href="http://cyclones.50megs.com/">http://cyclones.50megs.com/</A><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+<BR>&nbsp;To 
unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail 
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href="mailto:-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au">-----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au</A>------------------------------</BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 16:30:25 -0500
From: "Leslie R. Lemon" <lrlemon at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on Radar
To: "INTERNET:aussie-weather at world.std.com" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
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Lyle wrote:

> just had a second look, for normal clouds, continental CCN is higher but
the
> main thing with tropical storms are the surface winds. Aersol generation
is
> proprtional to winds so, for a tropical storm, there will be a major
source
> of aersol->CCN once the winds pick up. I just wanted to clairfy the whole
> CCN concentration thing :)

One more point, with the tropical type precip systems as with continental
stratiform systems, the dominant precipitation growth mechanism is
"collision and coalescence".  That growth process results in the highest
reflectivities and largest (but still small) drops will be at the surface. 
However, in thunderstorms where mixed phase abounds, the growth process
that dominates is by the differential vapor pressure of water and ice. 
That is, in those conditions the vapor pressure over ice is smaller than
the vapor pressure over water.  Thus, the ice phase, the snow flakes, grow
at the expense of cloud water.  These flakes continue to grow until they
descend sufficiently and warm and the result is large rain drops.

This is a simplified explanation and I have neglected some processes, such
as the strong updrafts in continental convection, but the result will be
large rain drops.

Les

************************
Leslie R. Lemon
Radar, Severe Storms, & Research Meteorologist
Tel. 816-373-3533, 816-213-3237
E-Mail: lrlemon at compuserve.com
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 10:33:24 +1100
From: Andrew Miskelly <amiskelly at ozemail.com.au>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I)
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Aussie Weather <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: FORECAST: Aviation Forecast
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The aviation forecasts never cease to impress me! Let's hope this (for
Area 21) comes true.

ARFOR  AMEND AREA FORECAST 072300 TO 081100 AREA 21
       
       OVERVIEW:
       ISOLATED THUNDERSTORMS/SHOWERS DEVELOPING AFTER 01Z NE OF A LINE
       PARKES/COOMA, TENDING OCCASSIONAL AND SEVERE E RANGES/COAST.


--
Andrew Miskelly
Illawarra/Southern Tablelands, NSW
amiskelly at ozemail.com.au
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Willis, Andrew AD" <WillisA at onesteel.com>
To: "'Aussie Weather'" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Goonoo Goonoo
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 09:23:16 +1100 
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Just caught up on two days worth of posts and saw someone mention Goonoo
Goonoo.

It is pronounced Gunner Goonoo.

Don't know why though.

Andrew Willis
Computer Support Engineer
Systems, OneSteel

Ph:  02 4941 1661



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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Dion Williams" <onamission at today.com.au>
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:27:23 -0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aus-wx: Re: Severe Sydney
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Rune Peitersen wrote:

> Glenorie 930pm
Been watching the savage storms enter Sydney since around 630pm. 
> Perfect timiing with the sunset again, very impressive bolts, are there certain conditions that favour cloud to air strikes because i > have never seen so many, at least 15 in 2 hours, some straight up into the air circle, back into clooud out the side onto ground, and > with the video camera poiting in the right direction too!!, always a bonus, to top of the night little old Glenorie got mentioned in the > severe tstorm warning, which duly got printed out :), no hail here but im sure there was a copious amount with this system.  Now for > tomorrow... Rune :)

I can agree; from near Hornsby, the towers looking well over 50000 feet were brilliantly lit up by the sun and I saw at least three cloud to air strikes arc out as they approached. The sky looked perfect; clear blue sky with the moon out on one side, a pure black wall vividly lit up by lightning on the other. The main front hit at about 8:20, no hail but very heavy rain (it must have been in the 100mm/hr vicinity) and some spectacular CG bolts landing close by. What struck me was the speed at which it collapsed after passing the Hornsby area; it was nothing more than a bunch of showers once it reached the Hawkesbury. I heard bits and pieces on the radio about wind damage and light hail damage near Bankstown, nothing solid though; don't you love it how every BOM warning now warns to expect LARGE hailstones? :P

Dion



--- Move to a better address ---
       + today freemail +       
    http://www.today.com.au     
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Sender: mbath at pop.ozemail.com.au
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 11:16:05 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Michael Bath <mbath at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Looking for links and info
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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<x-flowed>
Hi Bruno,

Check out the information and links on my site here:
http://australiasevereweather.com/cyclones/

I don't think everything you want is available but make sure you check this 
page as well:
http://australiasevereweather.com/cyclones/other.htm

regards, Michael


At 15:07 07/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi All
>
>I'm a very discrete reader of this mail-list since last august and also 
>proud webmaster of the first website wholly in french about hurricanes in 
>the Atlantic. But I've decided to extend my coverage to the other oceans 
>and I have tons of difficulties to provide the same products.
>
>This is particularly for Carl. Where can I find data sources for forecasts 
>in the Pacific and/or the Indian Ocean? Is there like a website where I 
>can get basic info, or an FTP anonymous server? I have this for the 
>Atlantic with Wx-Atlan
>
>Thanks to assist me
>
>For those of you you read french, you can check:
>
><http://www.ouragans.com>http://www.ouragans.com
>
>
>Bruno Benjamin


  =============================================================
  Michael Bath      mailto:mbath at ozemail.com.au
  McLeans Ridges    http://australiasevereweather.com/
  NE NSW Australia  http://www.lightningphotography.com/
  ASWA Secretary    http://www.severeweather.asn.au/
  =============================================================

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
</x-flowed>
From: davidkc at advanceenergy.com.au
Subject: aus-wx: NW NSW Report ABC News 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5  September 22, 2000
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 15:13:15 +1100
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Domino/Advance(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at
 08/12/2000 03:13:13 PM
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Just found this report at ABC Online News.  08/12.

Storms cause minimal damage over NSW
                    north west

                    Police believe storms in the New England and north-west
                    region of New South Wales overnight caused minimal
                    damage.

                    Strong winds brought down a number of trees, and caused
                    interruptions to power supplies in an area from Ebor on
the
                    northern tablelands to the Gunnedah and Mullalley
districts.

                    Northpower says consumers in the Attunga and Somerton
                    areas near Tamworth were without power for most of the
                    night after a number of transformers were hit by
lightening.

                    Lightening strikes also caused temporary blackouts in
the
                    Wallabadah, Gunnedah, Mualley, Tambar Springs,
                    Walcha, Yarrowtch, Gwabbegar, and Piliga areas.


                           © 2000 Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Dave

Bathurst

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
X-Sender: carls at ford.ace-net.com.au
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:42:44 +1000
To: Aussie Weather List <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
From: Carl Smith <carls at ace-net.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: TC SAM : JTWC update
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Hi All.

After lagging behind the BoM on their estimates of the intensity of TC Sam,
JTWC has been playing catch up, and have released a warning out of synch
with their normal schedule.

They have TC Sam peaking at 165 knots (305 km/hr!) tomorrow - see below.

Regards,
Carl.

287
WTXS31 PGTW 072100
1. TROPICAL CYCLONE 03S (SAM) WARNING NR 007
   01 ACTIVE TROPICAL CYCLONE IN SOUTHERN HEMISPHERE
   MAX SUSTAINED WINDS BASED ON ONE-MINUTE AVERAGE
    ---
   WARNING POSITION:
   071800Z6 --- NEAR 17.9S7 120.7E0
     MOVEMENT PAST SIX HOURS - 235 DEGREES AT 03 KTS
     POSITION ACCURATE TO WITHIN 060 NM
     POSITION BASED ON CENTER LOCATED BY SATELLITE
   PRESENT WIND DISTRIBUTION:
   MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 115 KT, GUSTS 140 KT
   RADIUS OF 100 KT WINDS - 020 NM
   RADIUS OF 050 KT WINDS - 060 NM
                            020 NM ELSEWHERE
   RADIUS OF 035 KT WINDS - 130 NM WEST SEMICIRCLE
                                   OVER WATER
                            075 NM ELSEWHERE OVER WATER
   REPEAT POSIT: 17.9S7 120.7E0
    ---
   FORECASTS:
   12 HRS, VALID AT:
   080600Z4 --- 18.4S3 120.4E7
   MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 125 KT, GUSTS 150 KT
   RADIUS OF 100 KT WINDS - 025 NM
   RADIUS OF 050 KT WINDS - 070 NM
   RADIUS OF 035 KT WINDS - 130 NM WEST SEMICIRCLE
                                   OVER WATER
                            095 NM ELSEWHERE OVER WATER
   VECTOR TO 24 HR POSIT: 195 DEG/ 04 KTS
    ---
   24 HRS, VALID AT:
   081800Z7 --- 19.1S1 120.2E5
   MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 135 KT, GUSTS 165 KT
   RADIUS OF 100 KT WINDS - 030 NM
   RADIUS OF 050 KT WINDS - 075 NM OVER WATER
   RADIUS OF 035 KT WINDS - 135 NM WEST SEMICIRCLE
                                   OVER WATER
                            110 NM ELSEWHERE OVER WATER
   VECTOR TO 36 HR POSIT: 180 DEG/ 04 KTS
    ---
   36 HRS, VALID AT:
   090600Z5 --- 20.0S2 120.2E5
   MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 135 KT, GUSTS 165 KT
   RADIUS OF 100 KT WINDS - 030 NM OVER WATER
   RADIUS OF 050 KT WINDS - 075 NM OVER WATER
   RADIUS OF 035 KT WINDS - 135 NM OVER WATER
                            045 NM ELSEWHERE
   VECTOR TO 48 HR POSIT: 175 DEG/ 06 KTS
    ---
   EXTENDED OUTLOOK:
   48 HRS, VALID AT:
   091800Z8 --- 21.1S4 120.3E6
   MAX SUSTAINED WINDS - 100 KT, GUSTS 125 KT
   DISSIPATING AS A SIGNIFICANT TROPICAL CYCLONE OVER LAND
   RADIUS OF 050 KT WINDS - 045 NM EAST SEMICIRCLE
                                   OVER WATER
                            035 NM ELSEWHERE OVER WATER
   RADIUS OF 035 KT WINDS - 100 NM EAST SEMICIRCLE
                                   OVER WATER
                            080 NM ELSEWHERE OVER WATER
    ---
REMARKS:
072100Z0 POSITION NEAR 18.0S9 120.6E9.
OFF TIME WARNING ISSUED FOR TROPICAL CYCLONE (TC) 03S (SAM), DUE TO
RAPID INTENSIFICATION OVER THE PAST 06 HOURS. SUBSEQUENT WARNINGS
WILL BE ISSUED ON A 12 HOURLY BASIS AT 0900Z9 AND 2100Z3. TC 03S
LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 190 NM NORTHEAST OF PORT HEDLAND, AUSTRALIA,
HAS TRACKED SOUTHWESTWARD AT 03 KNOTS DURING THE PAST 6 HOURS. THE
WARNING POSITION IS BASED ON 071730Z8 INFRARED SATELLITE IMAGERY.
THE WARNING INTENSITY IS BASED ON SATELLITE CURRENT INTENSITY
ESTIMATES OF 105 AND 127 KNOTS. ANIMATED SATELLITE IMAGERY DEPICTS
IMPROVING ORGANIZATION OVER THE PAST 06 HOURS WITH A WELL DEFINED 25
NM EYE FEATURE. UW-CIMSS VERTICAL WIND SHEAR PRODUCT, INDICATES THE
SYSTEM IS UNDER MODERATE VERTICAL WIND SHEAR, WITH INCREASING
VERTICAL WIND SHEAR TO THE SOUTH. TC 03S (SAM) IS FORECAST TO TRACK
SLOWLY SOUTHWARD, INTO A WEAKNESS IN THE SUBTROPICAL RIDGE, AS AN
APPROACHING MID-LEVEL TROUGH ENHANCES THE WEAKNESS. THE SYSTEM IS
FORECAST TO INTENSIFY, UNTIL LANDFALL, AT APPROXIMATELY 090500Z4,
THEN BEGIN TO DISSIPATE OVER LAND. MAXIMUM SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT
AT 071800Z6 IS 22 FEET. NEXT WARNINGS AT 080900Z7 (DTG 080751Z1) AND
082100Z1 (DTG 081951Z4).//


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: Blair Trewin <blair at earthsci.unimelb.edu.au>
Subject: aus-wx: WA annual rainfall record broken; more to follow?
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com (Aussie Weather)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:53:43 +1100 (EST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3]
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The record for the highest annual rainfall at a WA station has been
broken. Kimberley Coastal Camp, on the north coast of Western
Australia, broke the record of 2169.4mm (set at Jarrahdale in 1917)
yesterday, and built on it considerably with 171mm today - they're
now on 2352.5. Kalumburu Mission also went past the old mark
today, and stands at 2184.3. 

In a way, the move of this record from a southern station to a 
northern one is symbolic of the changes that have taken place in the
WA climate over the past century.

The record for the highest state-average rainfall for a year in WA
fell in October.

The national record may also be in danger. Bellenden Ker needed
761mm for December to break its record (set last year) of 11852mm.
Given the observations elsewhere in the region during the last week
(400+ in places) one would expect that they have already got at least 
500, perhaps even the full 761. Unfortunately they only report
monthly, so we'll have to wait until early January to find out what
has happened.

Blair Trewin
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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "clyve herbert" <mesof5 at iprimus.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Unexpected lightning.
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 16:29:59 +1100
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
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<x-html>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2722.2800" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Started to pick up lightning static on my trusty 
lightning detector! (Sony am radio) at about 1530hrs, I estimated distance at 
between 200 and 400k, looking everywhere I finally found some pretty decent CBs 
just off the north east coast of Tasmania!! of all places, these storms appear 
to be developing along a convergence line&nbsp; forming to the northwest of a 
weak low east of Tasmania.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>regards Clyve Herbert ( storm less 
Geelong).</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>
From: "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
To: "weather list" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Tropical cyclones
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:59:30 +1100
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I'm new to seeing a tropical cyclone on radar. Why is there only a dark blue
showing eg .3 to 2mm rain fall rate. Shouldn't there be a higher rainfall
rate?

Bussie (NE Victoria)

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "bussie" <bussie at netc.net.au>
To: "weather list" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: I'll ask
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:44:41 +1100
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

How come with a tropical cyclone and pretty severe stuff with it there is no
lightning etc? Of course there's lots of wind and rain, but being a pretty
savage sort of "storm" I would've thought there'd be heaps of lightning
involved.

Bussie (NE Victoria)

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
From: "Paul Yole" <pyole at australia.edu>
To: "Aussie Weather" <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: On holidays
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:02:40 +1100
Organization: ASWA Victoria
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Hey all,

Just a short note to say that Iwon't be about for about a week as I'm going
up to sunny (Well, hopefully stormy) Queensland for some R & R and to see if
these Qld guys can cook a proper BBQ.

Will ttyal

PaulY

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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:09:57 +1000
To: Aussie Weather List <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
From: Carl Smith <carls at ace-net.com.au>
Subject: aus-wx: TC Sam crossing coast - Broome radar
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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Hi All.

With TC Sam crossing the coast at Bidyadanga, the Broome radar is quite a
sight - great that the BoM has made this available.

If anyone has the radar images between 11:10 and 11:40 utc [7:15 to 7:45
WST] (or loop containing same), please let me know (someone needed to use
the phone!).

Regards,
Carl.



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From: "Michael Thompson" <michaelt at ozemail.com.au>
To: <aussie-weather at world.std.com>
Subject: aus-wx: Kiama Storm
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:43:52 +1100
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The south wind change riding over Mount Saddleback near Kiama was enough
lift to push a thunderstorm up, this gave brief heavy rain to Kiama and
Shellharbour.

Of note was the amount of CC lightning, almost 1-2 a second at one stage.

The BOM staff should keep an eye on the radar, although it has moved to sea
in a NE direction it may if it becomes a supercell take a more north course,
like the infamous Sydney Hailstorm. There is enough shear for supercell,
although now that the storm has moved away from the coast a repeat is
extremely remote.

Michael Thompson
http://thunder.simplenet.com


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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 23:40:15 +1100
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Ben Munro <benjamin at biosys.net>
Subject: Re: aus-wx: Tropical cyclones
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
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For discussion on this, refer to the thread 'Re: aus-wx: WEATHER: TC Sam on
Radar'.

At 19:59 08-12-00 +1100, you wrote:
>I'm new to seeing a tropical cyclone on radar. Why is there only a dark blue
>showing eg .3 to 2mm rain fall rate. Shouldn't there be a higher rainfall
>rate?
>
>Bussie (NE Victoria)

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 -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------